Raise vs. Sandbag with AA early position?

[Hermlord]

When you have AA early position, how often do you come out raising vs. attempt a sandbag (limp-reraise)? I have been just raising at PP $3-6 because you'll get so many callers; I just started PP $5-10 and an EP raise will often just fold the whole table there, so I think a sandbag attempt is correct. Is this right? Is KK the same or is it too risky to let an Ax in cheap?

[Festus22]

Generally, limp-reraises preflop scream AA or KK whereas a normal raise can be a large range of hands. So you may trap a few players with the limp reraise but kill your action post flop. You are also depending on someone raising behind you after you limp which doesn't always happen.

That's not to say that a limp reraise should NEVER be attempted but it should be the exception, not the rule.

[Hermlord]

[ QUOTE ]
Generally, limp-reraises preflop scream AA or KK whereas a normal raise can be a large range of hands. So you may trap a few players with the limp reraise but kill your action post flop. You are also depending on someone raising behind you after you limp which doesn't always happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true but I'm getting so little action on EP raises anyway. At least a sandbag can pick up some extra bets preflop.

Maybe the lack of action is a quirk of my small sample size.

[The T.A.]

If you think the table is going to fold if you raise in EP, by all means, limb-rerase.

But remember, you often will be losing action on the flop and turn because of this play.

If in doubt I'd just do the standard raise. You can't really help it if nobody has anything preflop.

[JimRivett]

When you have AA early position, how often do you come out raising

Every time!

If there ever is a time to limp with AA it's perhaps, just perhaps, when you are on the button and it's folded to you.

Jim

[Chris Daddy Cool]

openlimping on the button with AA is retarded because the blinds are expecting you to steal with a wide range of hands and will generally give you action anyways if they have something decent. openlimping keeps the pot smaller and their spider senses higher with such a strange play.

[JimRivett]

If you reread my post I wasn't recommending limping with AA on the button.

However you may be giving the Party low limit players more credit than is due, and what's all this about "spider senses" and who are they - Toby Mcguire? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Jim

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Generally, limp-reraises preflop scream AA or KK whereas a normal raise can be a large range of hands. So you may trap a few players with the limp reraise but kill your action post flop. You are also depending on someone raising behind you after you limp which doesn't always happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true but I'm getting so little action on EP raises anyway. At least a sandbag can pick up some extra bets preflop.

Maybe the lack of action is a quirk of my small sample size.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you need to raise more hands preflop, so they don't know you have AA

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
If you reread my post I wasn't recommending limping with AA on the button.

However you may be giving the Party low limit players more credit than is due, and what's all this about "spider senses" and who are they - Toby Mcguire? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Jim

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
If there ever is a time to limp with AA it's perhaps, just perhaps, when you are on the button and it's folded to you.


[/ QUOTE ]

In this situation, everyone has folded to you on the button, and you said you might limp with AA. This is what CDC was talking about. I'd raise with so many hands here, why would you not raise with AA. If they flop any pair, they will probably give you more action than they should

[Bill C]

One of the reasons that lots of players whine about getting their Aces cracked is they screw around like trying to sandbag, etc. And let weak draws in for cheap.

Bet out. If they all fold, you didn't get your Aces cracked!

The only time I'd slow-play AA is if I was in late position and there were many limpers. You're not going to clean them out with a raise. So call. Then on later rounds you can represent anything you want to, knowing that you have a powerhouse in the pocket. It's a way to make a lot of money with your Aces.

bill

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
One of the reasons that lots of players whine about getting their Aces cracked is they screw around like trying to sandbag, etc. And let weak draws in for cheap.

Bet out. If they all fold, you didn't get your Aces cracked!

The only time I'd slow-play AA is if I was in late position and there were many limpers. You're not going to clean them out with a raise. So call. Then on later rounds you can represent anything you want to, knowing that you have a powerhouse in the pocket. It's a way to make a lot of money with your Aces.

bill

[/ QUOTE ]

This is horrible advice. Really.

You say, "It's a way to make a lot of money with your Aces."


You know how I do this? I raise after 5 limpers, getting an extra 3BB in there when I can. You can't make up this kind of money post flop. Raise you have the best hand

[slavic]

The only time I'd slow-play AA is if I was in late position and there were many limpers.

This is a crime against humanity. They have prisons in The Hague for such things.

[TripleH68]

[ QUOTE ]
The only time I'd slow-play AA is if I was in late position and there were many limpers. You're not going to clean them out with a raise. So call. Then on later rounds you can represent anything you want to...

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't you rather "represent anything you want to" after raising preflop?

[Hermlord]

Two points to clarify:

1) I raise EP with plenty. And, it gets folded all around plenty (at PP 5-10). Most hands this is just fine, but with AA it's a bit of a letdown.

2) I'm not suggesting smooth calling LP or anything like that. I want those bets pf, I just think sandbagging might be a better way to get them. If I didn't think there was a reasonable chance of getting a raise after me, I would just go ahead and raise out.

[bdk3clash]

I'm less concerned about your AA/KK meta-strategy and more concerned about your table selection.

[Shillx]

You should slowplay aces preflop from time to time, but only if you are a really really tight player. I will do it after I have limped in a few times in EP with medium pairs.

Brad

[Hermlord]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm less concerned about your AA/KK meta-strategy and more concerned about your table selection.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well OK, but I don't know how much choice I have. I've never seen more than 3-4 full 5-10 tables going (not doing 6max right now), and they all seem pretty much the same. I think this is part of the reason many people here dislike PP 5-10. I don't have the bankroll for 10-20 and anyway it seems pretty similar. Right now I'm doing 3-6 with just an occasional 5-10 table to get the feel of it; I only have 2,000 hands at 5-10 so again this might all be bunk anyway.

[MrFeelNothin]

Try raising more hands preflop, if you're raising 12%+ of your hands, you should have no problem getting action on your EP raises. Also, to Bill C, you seem to be missing some basic fundamentals of a winning strategy. Do some reading.

[Bill C]

Tom McEvoy doesn't think so.
bc

[mistrpug]

[ QUOTE ]
Tom McEvoy doesn't think so.
bc

[/ QUOTE ]

Then he's wrong too.

[junkmail3]

[ QUOTE ]
Tom McEvoy doesn't think so.
bc

[/ QUOTE ]

He also plays no limit HE, where you can gain much more value later. In limit you need to get it while you can.

Limping AA is awful.

Last night I had K4o on the big blind. Flopped K47, was able to cap the flop and 3-bet the turn (at which points it was heads up with villian)

I'm sure he was thrilled that he was getting that extra value from his pocket Aces. (Turn/River: blank) What a disguised hand!

Can you guess what I would have done if it was raised PF?

[mistrpug]

[ QUOTE ]
He also plays no limit HE, where you can gain much more value later. In limit you need to get it while you can.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think limping with AA after 5 limpers in no limit is even worse than in limit.

[junkmail3]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He also plays no limit HE, where you can gain much more value later. In limit you need to get it while you can.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think limping with AA after 5 limpers in no limit is even worse than in limit.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say it was a good idea, but it may be why that guy is saying it.