normal to lose money with aj?

[hhboy77]

i've recently bought pokertracker and am still getting a grip on how to best use it to improve my poker game. however, while looking at my tourney stats, i was most surprised to see that i was losing money with aj.

i know aj is a piece of crap, and i know not to play it from early position for the first three levels i also know why i'm losing with aj, because it's just good enough to push when the blinds start to get big and get [censored] on by ak,aq,qq etc... however, i'd like to know if other winning players are experiencing the same thing.

however, i wasn't aware that i was acutally losing money with it, and for that matter hands like kj, qj suited etc..

do these indicate something about my play that i need to plug? i'm going through a bad run but i'm still in the positive (15%) for the 200+ tourneys i have tracked.

any suggestions.

[tigerite]

I won't touch KJ or QJ suited or not after level 1, and even then, only in late position with a couple of limpers at least. AJ is the same, I very occasionally will play it at level 2 as well, but that's rare.

Of course, I will steal with KJ/QJ/AJ later on if my stack is big enough (or small enough!) but I tend to leave them well alone if I'm in the 7-11BB range.

[betgo]

I don't agree with not playing AJ, KQs, and KJs. There are a lot of situations where I would play them. You might not call a raise with them, particularly unsuited. If people have limped in, I would atleast limp. If folded to me in late position, I would raise. In late rounds with high blinds short handed, I would generaly push with any of these hands.

The problem is probably the sutuations you are playing them and how you play them postflop. These are "trouble hands" where you don't want to put in too much when you flop top pair and may be dominated.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]

The problem is probably the sutuations you are playing them and how you play them postflop. These are "trouble hands" where you don't want to put in too much when you flop top pair and may be dominated.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't want to put in too much when you flop top pair, what are you expecting to hit with these hands?

If you can't play the hand with confidence, why get involved at all?

I agree that there are playable spots with these hands, but in each of those, if I hit top pair, I'm always prepared to go all the way with it. If I'm not, I fold preflop.

eastbay

[eastbay]

No, it is not normal (well, ok, it is probably "normal" but so is losing), although it may just be a short-term thing. Over my last 1200 AJ hands, I average about +100 chips per hand.

I am positive for all Ax except A4. By comparison, AQ is about +150 and AK is about +250.

eastbay

[tigerite]

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I don't agree with not playing AJ, KQs, and KJs. There are a lot of situations where I would play them. You might not call a raise with them, particularly unsuited. If people have limped in, I would atleast limp. If folded to me in late position, I would raise. In late rounds with high blinds short handed, I would generaly push with any of these hands.

The problem is probably the sutuations you are playing them and how you play them postflop. These are "trouble hands" where you don't want to put in too much when you flop top pair and may be dominated.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course, I use them as 'steal' hands later on, perhaps not steal in the true sense of the word, because they become powerful with fewer players. What I mean is, I'll not play them at the 15/30 blinds and 25/50 blinds with limpers or not, the exception being maybe AJ, but it's very table dependent. I would also raise first-in in late position with them, too, but again that's using them as a steal, rather than a "playable" hand.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree that there are playable spots with these hands, but in each of those, if I hit top pair, I'm always prepared to go all the way with it. If I'm not, I fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

In later levels with shallow money, yes. But in levels 1 and 2 I would definately not plan to put all my chips in with top pair third kicker.

[tigerite]

Oh and I didn't mention KQs.. that's a different animal.. that one I'll usually play at 15/30 in late position and often times 25/50 too, it's more powerful in a lot of ways than AJ.

[eastbay]

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[ QUOTE ]
I agree that there are playable spots with these hands, but in each of those, if I hit top pair, I'm always prepared to go all the way with it. If I'm not, I fold preflop.

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In later levels with shallow money, yes. But in levels 1 and 2 I would definately not plan to put all my chips in with top pair third kicker.

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Me either. Which is why I fold the hand preflop.

eastbay

[betgo]

With KQs or KJs, you are also trying to hit a straight or flush. You can also win pots with top pair, but with deep money you may need to fold when the action indicates you are probably beaten.

[hhboy77]

eastbay, are you including ajs in your calculations?

looking at my stats, i've only had aj off 122 times so my sample size is obviously much smaller than yours. my numbers for aq (175) and ak (225) aren't too different from yours though.

among ace-hi hands, i'm losing with a7 off and a4s. after looking at my stats, i've lost 110 total chips in 122 trials w/aj off, so i'm basically even. still, i'm well positive in all my other aces. could this mean i'm running bad?

after all, aj isn't great but it better hold up a a fair amount of times at the end of tourneys. also, do you not play aj off from any position in the first 2 levels?