KK - Is this standard?

[Cerril]

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Both players seem LA, but no one has shown anything crazy.

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero caps</font>, Button calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12.33 SB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, BB calls.

Turn: (7.66 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button raises</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (13.66 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero folds...

I figured I'd call down unless something really scary hit, since I didn't see that I had to be beaten. The ace though and one caller left behind me killed even the one in sixteen or so. But on the other hand, the moment I hit the button I wondered about whether I should just call no matter what... For that matter, if I planned to call the river should I have just raised the turn and folded to a cap?

[ErrantNight]

I don't know what BB had to call two bets cold twice... but I'm a little afraid when he wakes up on this river. Not sure what he wakes up and bets into two aggressors on the river that you beat here and you're not closing the action against a slightly disconcerting turn raise.

i think i want to 3-bet the turn here... conceivably button flopped a set but i think it's more likely he has an overpair that's worse than yours or just picked up a flush draw with overcard outs he's trying to clean up by raising out bb.

ugly.

[gaming_mouse]

If these guys are loose, I think you raise that turn for sure.

[Cerril]

alright, so reraise the turn. I assume that means folding the river was an even worse decision?

[wheelz]

I think it's a good fold on the river. Unless you know he's insane, BB has to have you beat to bet there. He coldcalls two on the turn then bets out on the river when the overcard hits... your hand can't be good here I don't think. Maybe Ax of spades, maybe A7, maybe he's been slowplaying something and is betting now because he thinks the ace helped you, but I can't see KK being good.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

when the BB bets like that he usually is not bluffing and you should fold given the action in the hand thus far.

that said, the turn...
button 3-bet preflop, and comes to life with the 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif falls. this usually means three things, which unfortunately still don't tell much about your hand
a) 99 or AA which you're in deep [censored].
b) QQ, JJ, TT which is good for your hand.
c) AK /images/graemlins/spade.gif type hand that is semi-bluffing you.

how frequently he'll have a,b,c really depends on the player and his patterns which only really you can decide at the table, but i think against most unknown opponents, calling down is a reasonable line because you don't want to leave yourself open to a cap on the turn if you 3-bet and you don't have to lose too much sleep over lost bets because you'll still collect a value call on the river the times he was doing that with QQ, JJ and TT.

[Cerril]

Alright... in the end the results threw me to the boards and away from the tables for awhile. Seriously tilt-inducing. I'm still fairly sure I was wrong to fold, but that it was close is at least comforting. Unfortunately I've been on the wrong end of 'calling down' too much lately, and I picked the wrong moment to stop bleeding.

BB had Q/images/graemlins/club.gif6/images/graemlins/heart.gif while
Button had 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif7/images/graemlins/club.gif

[sthief09]

against an unknown folding is fine. against a LAG folding is not fine

[Cerril]

Well, keep in mind the question is 'against two LAGs'. Against one, even an unknown, I think a call is acceptable. Against a single person where I can't read as accurately a call is mandatory. The question here is which side of the scale weighs more heavily:

1) 'Call one bet on the river unless you can't possibly win', 'Opponents are both noted by stats as LAG but haven't yet shown themselves to be stupid beyond that'

2) '3-bet preflop' 'raised on the turn' 'bet into by a different opponent when the scare card hit' 'turn raiser yet to act'

I'm not pressing the point because I think calling is wrong. I just want to confirm whether it's close or absolutely foolish to do otherwise. Originally I was leaning toward close but I might not be good even 1 in 16, now I'm thinking that the action doesn't really push me that far along with a KK overpair - 15-16BB is worth calling down no matter how scary the river, but without a more detailed read (such as this hand gave me), it's close.