Speeding Ticket

[Chris Daddy Cool]

So driving down the 101 last night to Santa Barbara, I got my very first speeding ticket ever, for going 75 mph... in a 70 zone. I just saw the lights flashing in my rear view mirror and I looked at my speed and saw that I was cruising at 75 and was like "WTF?!" and pulled over.

"You know I got you for speeding right?"
"Um, yes."
"License and registration please."
"Here, sir."

Yada yada yada, I get my ticket and I'm on my way.

I called my girlfriend shortly after and she told me I should have been nicer to the police officer and maybe he could have gotten me off on a warning. I thought I was being nice, as I was very cooperative and didn't throw a fit.

Firstly, how bs is my ticket, 5 mph over?! give me a break.
Secondly, how should I have handled it, i.e. what should I have said to him?
And finally, how exactly does one talk his/her way out of a ticket?

[Reef]

[ QUOTE ]
how bs is my ticket, 5 mph over?!
Secondly, how should I have handled it, i.e. what should I have said to him?
And finally, how exactly does one talk his/her way out of a ticket?

[/ QUOTE ]

me thinks you need bigger breastesses

[Ulysses]

One time I was doing about 130 coming back from Tahoe in the summer. The policeman said that he didn't get a gun on me before I slowed down, but he said when he was at 90 I was pulling away from him at a rapid clip. I managed to talk my way out of that one. Good times. That was my best work ever.

[ThaSaltCracka]

first of all, don't ever try to "talk" your way out of a ticket, that only annoys them, and they are more likely to give you on. Secondly, don't ever admit to speeding. When he comes up and says, "this is for speeding, you know?" "say something like, "I was only going a few miles over" "a few" is very vague and can mean anything, or simply tell him that you didn't realize you had gone over the speedlimit. I usually get really nervous when ever I get pulled over, so somehow I think that works to my advantage. Basically, just seem, polite, stupid, and unarrogant, and they usually let you off. Helps to be white too. 5 mph is total bs anyways, what a [censored] tool.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

what did you say to him?

[nolanfan34]

I'd certainly go to court over this one. I mean, the margin of error on a radar gun is like +/- 2 MPH, right? You should be able to get it reduced at the very least.

Cracka is right though. When he asked if you knew he pulled you over for speeding, I would have said, "really? I thought I was going about 70."

To bad you couldn't do what I did once. I was following my wife, and I blamed it on her. Told the cop I was following her, and wasn't familiar with the streets or speed limit, which was true. He let me off.

[M2d]

El D showed him big brestesses

[Ed Miller]

If it's something like this where you were only marginally over the speed limit:

1. If he asks if you know what you did wrong, you have no idea.
2. When he tells you what you did, do NOT admit guilt. You can say, "Ok," or "I understand," but don't say, "I'm sorry," or "I won't do it again."
3. Make sure you don't do anything that might appear threatening. Be pleasant and helpful. Don't make excuses. Be positive.

After that, there's not much you can do. Either the guy is gonna let you off or he's not.

[Ed Miller]

I managed to talk my way out of that one. Good times. That was my best work ever.

You were probably going so fast that his only options were either to haul you to jail or let you off.

[WDC]

If he is pulling you over for 5 mph over the limit you are not getting off with a warning no matter how nice you were.

Never admit to speeding. Cops know what questions to ask? Don't answer them. When he says "you know I got you for speeding" you say nothing or else say " i don't know why you stopped me."

You can't get out of a ticket unless you are a woman with big chest or many many children. Or you need to be funny.

[NLSoldier]

The first time I got pulled over was about 3 months after I got my license. I was going 90 in a 65. The cop said somthing like "you were going a little fast back there, I clocked you at 90" And I was so nervous all I could manage was a "yeah..I guess..." He asked for my license and registration and I had neither. So he asked for my name and birthday and stuff and if it was my parents car. Then he went back to his car for what seemed like forever. He finally came back and said, "I'm gonna let you go tonight, try to slow down a little for me, and don't use your brights on the highway" "Thank you Sir!" I think it was the fact that I was visibly shaking from nervousness that got me off but it still boggles my mind that he didnt even give me a warning.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it was the fact that I was visibly shaking from nervousness that got me off

[/ QUOTE ] I will bet anything that was why you were let off. Don't discount being a scared kid. In fact, there really aren't that many cops out there trying to catch people speeding. Usually when someone gets pulled over for "speeding" they were either barely going over the limit or else they weren't speeding at all. Cops, especially late at night or if it is a young male(or minority) look for a reason to pull them over, and they do that to find out if you are up to something. You would be amazed how many pot arrests start out as basic traffic stops for [censored] like a tail light out or "speeding".

Rule #1
NEVER ADMIT TO DOING SOMETHING WRONG WHEN THEY PULL YOU OVER, YOU ARE SCREWED FROM THERE ON, NO MATTER WHAT.

[cardcounter0]

Then nothing you could have said or done was going to get you out of a ticket.

The best line in such a case is "Awwww... put the bullet back in your pocket, Barney."

Makes the cop your immediate pal.
/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Ulysses]

OK, so I'm in Tahoe for the weekend w/ a friend. Coming back Sunday afternoon, it's a beautiful sunny day. I have the top down, music blaring, everything's great.


I'm also masterfully checking the onramps (where the cops hang out between Tahoe and SF) and slowing down into them, speeding up after them. I'm usually pretty great about spotting them.

So I safely blow by another one and am back to cruising speed of 120-130. Way, way in the distance I see a police siren. I snicker at the poor sucker who got busted and take my foot off the pedal so I coast to a slower speed. Then I notice the cop passing everyone and getting behind me. Dammit.

So I pull over. He asks for my license/reg/ins. I give it to him. He comments that he should be asking for my pilot's license since I was flying so fast. He then asks me how fast I was going. I decide I can't really plead not speeding on this one, so I say

"uh, I think about 85 sir."
well, you weren't doing 85 'cause I was doing 90 and you were pulling away from me like a shot.

He then walks away. He checks the stuff and comes back. At this point, I masterfully say "honestly, sir, I probably was going a little faster than 85. I was trying to keep right around 80, but I had the music on and it was a nice day and I think it got away from me a little."

He then asks me to step out of the car. He asks me what the speed limit is.

"I dont know."
What do you think it is?
"Uh, 65?"
Yeah, it's 65. So why were you trying to keep it at 80 then?
"Well sir, that's a really good point, I have no excuse besides stupidity."

He then switches gears.

Who's that young lady?
"Uh, a friend of mine"
Do you care about her?
(WTF?) "Yes?"
Well then, even if you want to put your own life in danger, why would you put her in danger?

And here, again, mastery.

"Well, sir, I had never thought about it like that. That's a really good point."

Seeing that his lesson had really sunk in, he explained to me that it's really easy for him to write a speeding ticket but it's a pain in the ass for him to write up an accident and death report. He then proceeded to explain all the extreme penalties for driving so much faster than the speed limit. Then he said that he appreciated my honesty in admitting that I might have been going over 85, and since I was honest and clearly got the point about his message re: the dangers of speeding, he said I should take this lesson to heart and not be so reckless with my own and other's lives.

I thought I would avoid getting hauled off to jail or getting the super penalty fines and that I could talk my way into him writing my a ticket for 75 or something. Getting out of this one was quite the unexpected surprise.

Good times.

In general, I'm always very respectful of traffic cops. Say sir all the time. Act a little nervous, but not overly so. Plead ignorance and stupidity. If possible, don't admit any fault or knowledge of wrongdoing. However, in extreme cases like this, don't plead ignorance when it would seem like you're just trying to call him a complete idiot.

It's good to have a plan. For example, there are a couple of places in SF where the only good way to get somewhere is by making an illegal left turn. I've been hit on those before. I bat 100% with "sir, I was positive that was only from 4p-7p." The cop then explains to me that while a lot of signs on Mission and Market are no left during rush hour, this specific sign is no left at all times.

Overall, I think just communicating in a calm, intelligent, nice manner will give you a good chance of getting out of a ticket. It's the exact same approach I use at airports, which often results in free upgrades, earlier flights, etc.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
In general, I'm always very respectful of traffic cops. Say sir all the time. Act a little nervous, but not overly so. Plead ignorance and stupidity. If possible, don't admit any fault or knowledge of wrongdoing. However, in extreme cases like this, don't plead ignorance when it would seem like you're just trying to call him a complete idiot.


[/ QUOTE ] This is excellent advice, especially the last part. The key is to not insult him. All you underage guys on here, if you ever get busted for underage drinking, be the same way, its worked for me a few times.

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
After that, there's not much you can do. Either the guy is gonna let you off or he's not.

[/ QUOTE ]
When I lived up in WA I had a lawyer that got me out of speeding tickets for $200 a pop. Granted, some of the tickets were for less than $200, but my insurance never went up. He was 8/8 BTW, including a 111 in a 70 neglegent driving ticket.

Good times.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
It's good to have a plan. For example, there are a couple of places in SF where the only good way to get somewhere is by making an illegal left turn. I've been hit on those before. I bat 100% with "sir, I was positive that was only from 4p-7p." The cop then explains to me that while a lot of signs on Mission and Market are no left during rush hour, this specific sign is no left at all times.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh man, oh man. I hated people like you who made those freakin' illegal lefts. Especially given that dweebs like me would go blocks out of the way to avoid them.

[The Dude]

Rules are for those who don't know what they're doing.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
Rules are for those who don't know what they're doing.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's nice and boisterous but ultimately pretty silly.

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
If possible, don't admit any fault or knowledge of wrongdoing. However, in extreme cases like this, don't plead ignorance when it would seem like you're just trying to call him a complete idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]
Never admit guilt. Ever. A lawyer can always get you out of traffic infractions, but not if you tell the cop you did it. I suppose if you plan on paying whatever ticket he gives you this approach is fine, but I refuse to pay any traffic ticket I don't have to. (And that's all of 'em, really.) Saying nothing is far better than saying "85, sir." Even if you were going 200.

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
That's nice and boisterous but ultimately pretty silly.

[/ QUOTE ]
Silly? It's amazingly true, actually. Think about it. Why do we really have rules? For those who don't know what they're doing.

[bakku]

Chris,

If you were in King City you were screwed no matter what you did after getting pulled over.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
Silly? It's amazingly true, actually. Think about it. Why do we really have rules? For those who don't know what they're doing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe, but generally people who proceed with this assumption end up having a pretty tired pose through life.

[icetonez]

I got my first speeding ticket this summer in Baltimore(It was like being on The Wire /images/graemlins/smile.gif. I was going 40 on my way to work and was caught in a trap. I was really surprised to hear that the limit was 25 on a two lane bridge. There were 3 young cops, 2 of them female and they got a string of 3 cars including a little old lady and her grandson. She told me that I would probably get off because I had no previous record. Then why don't you just let me off I thought to myself. Anyway it has been 5 months and still no correspondence from them. Maybe she did let me off.

[bernie]

If it's a 1st violation on your record, you should be able to get out of it.

When i got caught going 22 over, i sent a lawyer and got out of it. (I posted about it long ago) Radar tickets are ridiculously easy to beat.

Remember the biggest cost of the ticket isn't the ticket itself. Call your insurance and see how much your insurance will cost 'IF' you have one ticket on it. They'll let you know right there how much it would cost if you had a ticket. Times the difference in rates by 3yrs worth to get a roundabout #. there's your cost.

b

[Stu Pidasso]

[ QUOTE ]
And finally, how exactly does one talk his/her way out of a ticket?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have an envelope that I keep my insurance card, registration, and one of these.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/graphics/art3/bushbill1.jpg

After he looks at my regisration and insurance card he lets me off with a warning. Somehow the bill always goes missing when he returns the envelope to me.

Stu

[SomethingClever]

I am on an insane hot streak of not getting pulled over. I'd estimate I've driven 130,000 miles in my lifetime, and I've never been pulled over.

I tend to speed around 10 over the limit on most freeways; faster if the conditions are right.

[wacki]

There was a local Sheriff who was a real dick. He would go out of his way to ticket guys all of the time but would let all of cute/crying girls go. So on a dare, one of my friends sprayed a little mace in my face to make me look like I was crying. I sped by his radar trap. When he pulled me over I put on the biggest acting job of my life. He was so shocked to see a guy crying he let me go. The best part, I have it on video tape.

[Sundevils21]

once got a ticket for 3 miles over the speed limit. Tryed the "wasn't I driving right at the speed limit officer?"
He said, "no, you were 3 over".
"Oh, okay that makes sense"

[youtalkfunny]

[ QUOTE ]
I had a lawyer that got me out of speeding tickets for $200 a pop... He was 8/8 BTW, including a 111 in a 70 neglegent driving ticket.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm 1/1!

I posted it last year, but I can't figure out the search thing to link it.

It was basically a post about me doing "My Cousin Vinny" in front of a Southern judge, highlighted by the objection I got sustained. I argued that the prosecutor had a burden to prove that the radar unit was accurate; and if he based the unit's accuracy on tuning forks (as they always do), the burden included him proving that the forks were accurately calibrated. He wasn't prepared for that, and the judge dismissed.

Forget about the lawyer at $200 a pop, go to www.beatmyspeedingticket.com (http://www.beatmyspeedingticket.com) and do it yourself! I did!

(No, that's not my site, I don't make a dime from it. I'm just a super-satisfied customer.)

There are a whole lot of things that you should do when you're pulled over, and I'm shocked that no one has mentioned them yet:

--Pull WAY the hell over. Pull into a side street if you can, or even better, a parking lot. The cop will appreciate your concern for his safety.

--Turn off your engine. Take the keys out, and lay them on the dash, where he'll see them.

--Have your license and insurance card out before he gets out of his car. No need to make him nervous by reaching for your glove box while he's standing next to you.

--Have your hands on the steering wheel, where he can see them, when he approaches.

--Don't get out of the car for any reason, unless told to do so.

--Don't admit any wrongdoing. "I understand" was a good suggestion.

--Be respectful. Do everything you can to make it clear to the officer that HE is in charge.

--And if you do all that....you'll probably still get the ticket. But you can beat it in court, as long as you don't say something that can be used against you.

[The Dude]

Yeah, see, that's the thing. Why would I bother driving all the way to the courthouse to go to court, wait for my turn, make all the arguments, and hope I win? I pay $200 and I don't even have to go to court!

[Malone Brown]

I was waiting till someone else asked but since no one did....how the hell did you get it on video tape? That would be entertaining.

[daryn]

ok so are you going to hook us all up with the pdf file or what?

[kyro]

oh jesus. i almost woke up my roommate after reading reef's, and then m2d's response.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh man, oh man. I hated people like you who made those freakin' illegal lefts. Especially given that dweebs like me would go blocks out of the way to avoid them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate people who make illegal lefts when there is traffic. If I'm gonna hold up traffic, I don't make the turn. But if I'm driving down Mission and there's no oncoming traffic and my choices are either go 10 extra blocks or just turn left, I turn left.

[wacki]

It's easy. Put the video camera in the passenger seat or passenger leg area and aim it up. Cover with blanket/clothes. It's easy to do with the small video camera's. Cardboard and duct tape comes in real handy when keeping the blanket the right shape.

The entertainment factor of the video is priceless. Getting drunk and watching the video has come in handy so many times I can't even count. People tell random people about what you did and well ... you can figure the rest out. People remember you for that kind of stuff. Sometimes it's really good to make an ass of yourself.

[Lawrence Ng]

Nice tale Diablo,

I think a lot has to do with the vehicle too. In Vancouver, a federal cop was killed by some obnoxious asian kid who was speed racing with his suped up Honda. This made headline news for days and ever since then any kind of modified sports car tailed towards street racing has been getting pulled over even doing 1 over the limit.

I drive a older work van myself. One time I was caught for not speeding through a stop sign and failing to stop. A cop was on my tail faster than a blink of an eye. I pulled over, was a bit nervous, acted quite honest, admitted to going through the stop sign. He asked me what I did and I told him and after examining my van he probably figured I was poor and let me off with a warning. Though I have to admit I thought he was going to rip my head off because he was one mean cop. It was a nice break for me.

Lawrence

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
I hate people who make illegal lefts when there is traffic. If I'm gonna hold up traffic, I don't make the turn. But if I'm driving down Mission and there's no oncoming traffic and my choices are either go 10 extra blocks or just turn left, I turn left.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough.

[Manimal]

If you haven't mailed the ticket in yet, plead not guilty, and check the box requesting a supporting deposition.

You must receive a written report on the ticket within 30 days, or the case is dismissed.

[PoBoy321]

I once got pulled over because I was revving my engine at a friend of mine at a red light. When it turned green, I went out at a good clip and maybe went 5 miles over the limit, so normally I would've been fine except for the fact that the unmarked cop car that pulled me over was right behind me. Luckily, I was 17, my friend in the other car was a girl and started bawling when she got pulled over and I got off with a warning. Funny thing is that about 45 minutes later, she got pulled over by the same cop for driving suspiciously slow.

Anyway, about your ticket, definitely plead not guilty. 50% of challenged tickets get reduced. If you've got a clean record up to this point, you should have no problem at least keeping the points taken off your license so that you don't have to deal with the insurance surcharges. You'll probably be able to get the fine reduced too. If you're really hell bent on getting the whole thing thrown out, the best idea is to find some technicality that you can get it discharged for. I mean, if the cop doesn't show up, it's automatically dismissed, and if he does show up, there are lots of things to find. If he got you with radar, ask the cop to show a log that he calibrated his radar that day. If it's not calibrated often, it's unreliable. Even if he filled out the ticket incorrectly it can get thrown out. My brother got a speeding ticket in Boston but had it dismissed after he found that in MA, all 3 lane roads with a speed limit under 35 have to be registered with the state. There are 2 3 lane roads that aren't registered and the one he was on is one of them (it's commonwealth ave, if you're curious. I think the other one is bunker hill rd, but don't go tear assing down them 'cause i think they've changed since then). Either way, chances are that your best option is to challenge it and get it reduced. Everything else is a pretty big hassle and if you really fight it rather than try to get it reduced, you can go through all that work and still have to pay the fine and get your points.

[OrangeHeat]

Go to a local colleg find a good Math/engineering professor who is familiar with uncertainty thery and associated calculations. 5 over is close to the edge they will be able to argue.

I had a professor who had a nicw side income going to court and getting people out of close tickets.

Orange

[MHarris]

I remember hearing a story a few years ago that goes something like this. A guy walks into a McDonald's somewhere in South Carolina, gets his meal and pays with a $200 bill. The cashier gives him the $190-something in change and he's on his way. Somehow store management thought this was OK also and were actually UPSET AT THE BANK for not accepting it with a deposit. I've never laughed so hard in my life.

[youtalkfunny]

[ QUOTE ]
ok so are you going to hook us all up with the pdf file or what?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, D, that was three computers ago, and I didn't have the foresight/intelligence to back it up.

I still have all my notes printed. My entire cross-examination was scripted. I stood there, reading my questions to the witness.

I've posted the story on other forums. I'll go see if I can find it.

EDIT: I can't find it. If anyone feels like looking for it here, it was spring of '03, and some of the text that I'm sure is in the body would be:

"CASE DISMISSED!"
"Sustained!"
"tuning forks"

Sorry.

[daryn]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
Go to a local colleg find a good Math/engineering professor who is familiar with uncertainty thery and associated calculations. 5 over is close to the edge they will be able to argue.

I had a professor who had a nicw side income going to court and getting people out of close tickets.

Orange

[/ QUOTE ]


i remember a physics prof. of mine telling the class how he got out of a speeding ticket by bringing up the doppler effect and such.

[youtalkfunny]

[ QUOTE ]
i remember a physics prof. of mine telling the class how he got out of a speeding ticket by bringing up the doppler effect and such.

[/ QUOTE ]

My sources (see above) advise against this. The courts have taken "judicial notice" of the science that governs radar speed-measurements.

Also, the police officer need not understand the science, he just needs to demonstrate competence in operating the equipment.

Man, I wish I could find that old post of mine. It's possible I didn't put it here, but I find that doubtful.

[theantelope]

My girlfriend (from CA) keeps telling me there is a 5 mph "grace period" written into the law. She says that the law states that a police officer cannot write a ticket unless someone is going more than five miles per hour over the limit. I've always thought this was some sort of urban legend. Anyone know if it's true?

By the way, Chris: I think you should have a decent shot at fighting the ticket. Radar guns range from having margins of error from 2mph to 7mph, and police officers are only trained to be able to judge speed with eyesight within a 5mph margin of error.

[ethan]

[ QUOTE ]

--Have your license and insurance card out before he gets out of his car. No need to make him nervous by reaching for your glove box while he's standing next to you.


[/ QUOTE ]

I've heard exactly the opposite. In fact, I think officers are fairly emphatic on this point. They'll be much more nervous if they see you leaning over and rummaging through your glove compartment before they've walked up next to you. When you get pulled over, just roll your window down and put your hands on the steering wheel. Deal with registration/insurance later.

[nothumb]

[ QUOTE ]
When you get pulled over, just roll your window down and put your hands on the steering wheel. Deal with registration/insurance later.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true. Especially if you don't want them to ask for that stuff, as in, if it's out of date. Also, I've had cops ask me if I had anything suspicious in the glove box because I got my stuff out before they got there.

I got pulled over three times by the same lady cop for having my license plate light out. The first time she made me do a FST and everything (which I easily passed as I wasn't drunk). She had a reputation for being pretty cute and very mean. She let me off all three times. I told her I was a broke child care worker and the state charges $90 to switch over a license (I still had my NC license at the time, which she also could have got me for).

NT

[CORed]

[ QUOTE ]
"You know I got you for speeding right?"
"Um, yes."

[/ QUOTE ]

Oops!

First rule of dealing with the police: Never admit guilt. You don't have to tell them anything. I realize that this is just a speeding ticket, and probably not worth contesting, but you have damaged your case if you should decide to fight it.

Five mph is pretty silly. I don't think I have ever been ticketed for less than 10. I have gotten a few warnings for 5-10 over.

In general, when dealing with the Police, tell them the truth if you think you have a good chance of being believed, and it is favorable to you. Otherwise, tell them nothing. Invoke the 5th ammendment if you must, or just act dumb. Be respectful and calm, but don't give in and tell them anything that they can use against you.

Lying will likely just get you into worse trouble (ask Martha Stewart).

I'm not sure you can talk your way out of a ticket, if the officer has the goods on you and is determined to ticket you. It's almost the end of the month: Maybe he had a quota to make. I do think, though, that you can talk your way into a ticket, either by giving them evidence against you, or by being beligerent and getting them mad at you.

[CORed]

I think the key was that he didn't actually get a radar reading on you. He knew you were speeding, big time, but he didn't have evidence that would hold up in court.

[ripdog]

A 5 over ticket is unheard of in Washington. I wouldn't bother going to court over this unless you do some serious homework. Look the ticket over for any mistake that the officer could have made. Is the location correct? Did he sign it? When was the last time his radar gun was certified? Does the officer have to be certified to operate the radar gun? Is his certification current? I went to traffic court with my wife and watched the public come to contest tickets. One guy actually provided pictures that proved that he was guilty! The rest were just ignorant and unprepared. The only people that got anywhere with the judge were attorneys. Oh yeah...it didn't matter in some cases if the officer was a no-show or not, the fine still stood. So look into that. Just don't make an ass of yourself and waste an entire afternoon with a bunch of ignorant losers.

[PoBoy321]

The cop doesn't need a radar reading. If he's doing 75 in a 70 and isn't passing you, he can get you for speeding.

[PoBoy321]

Well, I don't know if it's necessary to sit in your driver's seat invoking the 5th ammendment, but yes, playing dumb is the right way to go (although I realize that playing dumb is part of your 5th amendment rights).

"You know I got you for speeding, right?"
The answer is "No, officer, I didn't realize I was speeding. I'm sorry."

If he pulled you over, he's probably already decided whether or not he's going to write you a ticket and the best thing you can do is just be nice and be honest. If you were only doing 5mph over, you probably honestly didn't realize that you were speeding. If he HASN'T decided whether or not he's going to write you a ticket, apologize, tell him you'll slow down. Other than that, it's really not in your hands.

If you HAVE admitted guilt though, that doesn't necessarily mean that you can't get the ticket reduced. Remember that when you get pulled over, the fine is a [censored] stain compared to the insurance surcharges you'll get. Contesting it and trying to make a deal is usually the best bet. Most towns, especially small municipalities don't care about the points, they're really just a way for state beaurocrats to get in good with insurance companies. All the small towns want is the fine. There are actually places where entire police forces are funded by traffic tickets. Contest it then talk to the ADA who's working your case, he/she'll probably try to make a deal right off the bat and you can get the points removed and the fine reduced right there. Unless there really is some egregious reason that you shouldn't have gotten the ticket, that's usually the way to go.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the key was that he didn't actually get a radar reading on you. He knew you were speeding, big time, but he didn't have evidence that would hold up in court.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know about other states, but in California "pacing" is valid evidence.

I did a quick search and found an article (http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/driving/articles/45103/article.html) stating that pacing-based tickets are actually harder to get out of than radar tickets.

[PoBoy321]

It's absolutely worth it to go to court over it. 95% of tickets don't get contested, but more than 50% of contested tickets get reduced. If it was only 5mph over the limit and the officer didn't use radar, you could probably persuade a judge pretty easily that 5mph is a pretty insignificant difference to spot without equipment. If he DID get you with radar though, chances are that a reduced penalty is the right way to go, unless you can persuade the judge that you've got a clean record and really don't deserve a penalty just for doing 75 in a 70.

[youtalkfunny]

[ QUOTE ]
The cop doesn't need a radar reading. If he's doing 75 in a 70 and isn't passing you, he can get you for speeding.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then you can challenge him to prove that his speedometer is accurate. Ask him to show some documentation from a certified facility that the speedometer has been tested, and found to be accurate, within a reasonable period of time prior to the arrest (usually, "reasonable period of time" is six months).

If he can't (and of course he won't), move for the speedometer reading to be thrown out, and for the case to be dismissed.

Sometimes you can get the mechanically measured reading disallowed, but the judge will still want to convict based on the officer's training and experience estimating the speed of on-coming and passing cars. DON'T STAND FOR IT! If you're cited for doing 78 in a 65 zone, they have to prove you were doing 78. Not "about 78", not "over 65", but precisely "78". Ask the cop if he was trained to estimate the speed of a car within 5 mph. Then ask if he can nail it down to the precise mph, beyond a reasonable doubt. I can't imagine that he would claim this ability. And if he did, I would demand to see a demonstration of his remarkable ability before the court would accept this as "evidence". Of course, he probably wouldn't tell such a bald-face lie unless he knew the judge would back him up--and if that's the case, you're screwed no matter what you do.

BTW, I totally spaced the "get your paperwork ready before he gets there". I knew it was one or the other, and couldn't remember which. My bad.

[youtalkfunny]

From the article mentioned by ED:

"The only technical angle to exploit was to prove that my speedometer was malfunctioning.

This won't get you off the hook. It's your responsibility to keep your speedometer accurate.

Maybe he meant to say his only shot was to prove that the POLICE CAR'S speedometer was malfunctioning. Tough to prove. Better to ask the prosecution to prove that it was accurate. Case law says that speed-measuring equipment can be presumed to be accurate only in the absence of an attack by the defense. IOW, if you ask them to prove the equipment is accurate, the burden is on them to do so.

"Another tactic Carroll describes is to delay the trial to a time when the ticketing officer can't come to court. He suggested I call the station house where my California Highway Patrol officer was based and find out when he was on vacation, or what his days off were. This could be done by calling over a number of days to find out when he was working. Then, when I extended my court date, try to schedule it for a day that he wasn't on duty."

YEAH, RIGHT!

"Hello, is this the Santa Monica Police Station? Hi, I'm calling to find out when Officer Jones is scheduled to take his vacation days? June 3-10? Great, great. Where's he going? Cancun? Oh, wonderful! Who's going with him? Really? Does his wife know about her? Well, tell him I said Bon Voyage!"

[OrangeHeat]

Uncertainty from tolerances, significant figures, etc.. still apply.

It gets pretty complicated and no matter how good the police officer is with the radar - an expert (i.e. Phd or the like) can successfully argue that while the radar gun said 75mph - after taking into account the +/- on the calibration, the error from the angle +/-, etc... that they can only be certain you were doing say 69, although you may have been going 81.

The math can get complicated enough that a program like Maple is needed to solve for the uncertainty in some cases. It's been along time - I'll see if I still have the example from one of his court cases.

Orange