WHAT to do after an early Beat?

[Cleveland Guy]

I had this happen last night where my KK lost to trip 5s. The beat happens, so that's not what this post is about.

This happened within the first 5 hands. I had won the first hand for a small pot, and my villian had lost a couple hundred in a pot already.

So after the all in beat I was down to about 300 chips or so.

Yes blinds are at 10/20, and it's still early, so I can still make a comeback. And I'm not going to throw away my chips on a dumb hand like 74o.

But I also don't want to sit around waiting for the "premium hand" that might double me up to 600.

At what point should I start to push with marignal hands? at what point is it better to either double up early or move on?

Specifically in about the 12th or 13th hand with blinds at 15-30, and me still at my 300 I get A9s. There is a small raise to 75 and a call. Normally I'm dumping this here, but given my short stack, I pushed. I was in the cutoff.

I didn't think waiting around for a better hand and better spot would be worth my time. Others thoughts?

[Klak]

you dont really want to give up ever. you can find a better spot than this and still get called. the blinds are still manageable for a while so i wouldnt push until i was forced to.

[2planka]

I generally play this like you did.

Pick a range of hands that are "good enough" in this situation and take a shot. Double through or start the next one.

I don't see this as "giving up." You have to take a shot at rebuilding the stack before the blinds start to hurt. If you do manage to rebuild you've got a fine image to work with (if your opponents are paying attention). If you bust out, well, fire up another one.

That said, it is often a good exercise in short stack play to grind it out when the stack takes an early hit. Especially in lower buyin SNG's, folding into the money is possible. So I guess it depends on your motivations. Sounds like you're multi tabling for income, so your strategy looks fine to me.

edit: to answer your question:
[ QUOTE ]
At what point should I start to push with marignal hands? at what point is it better to either double up early or move on?


[/ QUOTE ]

I just go by the 10% push/fold rule. Since you're at T300 I think it's okay to push when the blinds hit 15/30. Why wait?

[tigerite]

Well, I just came back from 360 chips with blinds at 50/100, 6 handed, to win an SNG.. so I don't think you should _ever_ give up.

[Cleveland Guy]

I've come back from down low as well, but not often with all 10 people still in.


Also - what site are you playing at? I should probably ad I'm playing at pokerroom, where you start with 1500 in chips.

300 is a lot more if starting stacks are only 800, or even 1000.

[tigerite]

This was at party, but the blinds-to-stack ratio is more important I think, and I had only just over 3bb. Yours was still over 10..

[Cleveland Guy]

I think it's all releveant.

The blind/stack ratio is important.

The total chips in play is important.

the number of players left is important.

The amount of time you have already put into the SnG is important.


Also- I want to say I wasn't "Giving up", as you mentioned. If I did that I probably would have pushed a much worse hand much earlier in the tournament.

[e_fermat]

I think the A9s push is not unreasonable at this stage. One benefit of having at least waited a few hands is that other players will have discounted the tilt factor by then from your earlier beat. Often if you push quickly after a beat then you'll get multiple callers who had put you on tilt and think you are likely to push with an even crappier hand. At least this way you are more likely to take some blinds or get heads up with one caller.

[Sluss]

Oddly enough I like to open up and play a looser style than usual. Alot of people are stll limping so I will limp with them with connectors or Ax, Kx suited, small pairs etc. and try to hit a flop. Sometimes you bust after four hands or you can double up. Its kind of fun to play like Gus Hanson for a few hands.

[FishBurger]

[ QUOTE ]
Specifically in about the 12th or 13th hand with blinds at 15-30, and me still at my 300 I get A9s. There is a small raise to 75 and a call. Normally I'm dumping this here, but given my short stack, I pushed. I was in the cutoff.

I didn't think waiting around for a better hand and better spot would be worth my time. Others thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't believe that you are in a desperate enough situation to push this marginal hand here. For one thing, with a raise and a call ahead of you, I could see one of the two with an A, something higher than a nine. In that case, your hand would be dominated. I think a push would be more appropriate here if there had only been limpers in front of you.

I like the idea of pushing with a small stack when you are likely to get called by two other players and might triple up, but I believe this hand is too likely to be dominated here and the blinds are still small enough that you can wait for better opportunities.

[flafishy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Specifically in about the 12th or 13th hand with blinds at 15-30, and me still at my 300 I get A9s. There is a small raise to 75 and a call. Normally I'm dumping this here, but given my short stack, I pushed. I was in the cutoff.

I didn't think waiting around for a better hand and better spot would be worth my time. Others thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't believe that you are in a desperate enough situation to push this marginal hand here. For one thing, with a raise and a call ahead of you, I could see one of the two with an A, something higher than a nine. In that case, your hand would be dominated. I think a push would be more appropriate here if there had only been limpers in front of you.

I like the idea of pushing with a small stack when you are likely to get called by two other players and might triple up, but I believe this hand is too likely to be dominated here and the blinds are still small enough that you can wait for better opportunities.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Something like this happened to me last night in a 2-table SNG at Poker Stars. We both hit three queens on the flop, I had an A. But he also paired his K and flopped a boat.

So I was down to about 360 in chips, but the blinds were still at 10/20 or 15/30. I was looking for an opportunity to go all-in, but in the meantime, I would try to pick up a small pot or steal a blind here and there with A9s and stuff like that. Never found that all-in opportunity, but I won enough small pots and stole enough blinds to get me back up to around 700 with the blinds still at a reasonable level. In essence, I doubled up by working some good spots without risking my entire stack. I backed away from an all-in invitation once or twice after limping in or small-raising for a blind steal. I ended up finishing second in the tourney.

The point is, it was too early for a desperation move. You still have enough that you can scare people away from some smaller pots and steal some blinds, and it's still early enough that you have room to maneuver. If you do nail those pocket rockets or hit a monster flop, you can go ahead and push it. But you don't need to go all-in on just anything at this point.

[SuitedSixes]

I echo the sentiment, Don't ever give up. Wait until the blinds are big enough that you are really making progress with each all-in. Last weekend I was fifth with 70 chips, three big stacks all clashed with the biggest winning, putting me ITM. I got a couple of quick quadruple-ups, and I was back in the game and ended up winning.

[wjmooner]

I really like Sluss' suggestion. If you are in a relatively passive SnG and get cracked down to 300-400 I would limp with the rest on lots of hands and try to get heads-up post-flop. Post-flop you push on good flops.

Plus, if you miss 4 or 5 times in a row then your A3 is looking pretty good. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

WJ