cero_z
11-29-2004, 04:00 AM
Hi folks,
I've posted this in the MTT forum, and I'm copying it here. Not trying to be a dick; hopefully, I won't be the only one to benefit from your advice, and I think there's a pretty funny line down near the bottom.
Perhaps this has been covered before, and someone can point me in the right direction with a link. Otherwise, offer anything you think is useful. My real question is, " At what stage/chip count do you desparately need to gamble? What should your general mindset be on day 1, day 2, etc.? "
I played my first big one at Foxwoods earlier this month. I was feeling inspired by having killed the 5-5 NL for 2 weeks, having won my 10K seat, and for the most part, having dominated my 1st few tables in the $500 NL event. I went into the final event with a lot of confidence.
Then, when I got to the table on day 1, I was a little dismayed to find that it seemed rather tough. There were no "big name" players that I knew, but there were several who were very good, who I'd already played against at other times during my trip. I quickly realized that I wouldn't be able to run over the table, and worried that this was typical, since there weren't even any outright superstars there, and still it seemed tough.
Also, the table was extremely tight, initially (what a shocker!). My plan was to establish that I was playing as tightly as everyone else, and then raise pre-flop a little more than the others, in order to engage the 3 weakest players at the table, who all seemed decent but vulnerable. They were lined up in the 9, 1, and 2 seats (nine-handed), and I was in the 6 seat. The two toughest players, I thought, were in the 7 and 8. So, I was hoping to shut them out by open-raising from there, and play the other guys. It worked OK, at first, and I had 14K by the middle of the 2nd level. At this point, I knew my looseness had been noted by the good players, and decided to shift back into first gear.
This worked out well, with me picking up KK UTG in the first hand of my tight phase! But, I ran into AA on my left, and lost about a 3rd of my chips (I posted that hand earlier). Then, I made a really terrible play with a set of Jacks on KQxxJ board, paying off the one kamikaze bluffer at the table, when I REALLY didn't need to (he had the nuts). Finally, I got out on a limb against a good, tight player, planning to bluff him, and then aborting it, when an ugly card hit the turn.
All of this left me with about 5500 in chips, which still seemed like a lot, given that the blinds were 100-200, with $25 anties. But, I was worried that I would need to accumulate chips if I was to be a force in the tournament at all, so I decided not to wait for premium hands, and I pressed. Not reckless gambling, but you know what I mean. Folded to me in MP, I raise to 700 with 66. Folded to the button, who opens for 800, I make it 2400 to go with AJo in the SB. 2 EP limpers, I limp in MP for 200 with 97s. That kind of junk.
Anyway, I was put out of my misery in 2 fairly uneventful hands, where I was heads up with a medium PP against the pre-flop raiser, and he outflopped me. The one I remember clearly played out like this. MP opens for 900, I call on the button with 66. He (lucky55 from Stars) has 20K, and is starting to push a bit. I have 4000 left after calling. The flop comes J 5 2r, and he bets 3600! I move in, and he has KJ. Game over.
So, I played that hand badly, I'm pretty sure. I didn't give up; but I had called pre-flop, planning to commit if the flop had one or fewer non-ace big cards, and my spider sense wasn't tingling. I got a near-ideal version of the flop I wanted. He correctly assessed the situation, and realized that I might call that overbet with a pair less than Jacks. I failed to re-adjust my thinking in the face of that bet, and went broke (I headed off to punch my spider-sense in the nuts).
I think my biggest mistake was deciding to play medium-loose when I was down to 5500. Obviously, the 525 per round doesn't pose a huge threat to my stack, and the chips had started to drift into the hands of tough players. But, at what point do you become desparate to get back to par? Is this a case where I should just be waiting for an extremely good hand, and trying to double up with it? 1.5 double-ups would've got me healthy. Christer Johannsen had been moved to my table with only 3000, and he managed to get it all-in twice, with QQ, and TT. If you've read this far, you're on the verge of sainthood. Helping me out with some guidelines will likely put you over the top.
Thanks,
Cero
I've posted this in the MTT forum, and I'm copying it here. Not trying to be a dick; hopefully, I won't be the only one to benefit from your advice, and I think there's a pretty funny line down near the bottom.
Perhaps this has been covered before, and someone can point me in the right direction with a link. Otherwise, offer anything you think is useful. My real question is, " At what stage/chip count do you desparately need to gamble? What should your general mindset be on day 1, day 2, etc.? "
I played my first big one at Foxwoods earlier this month. I was feeling inspired by having killed the 5-5 NL for 2 weeks, having won my 10K seat, and for the most part, having dominated my 1st few tables in the $500 NL event. I went into the final event with a lot of confidence.
Then, when I got to the table on day 1, I was a little dismayed to find that it seemed rather tough. There were no "big name" players that I knew, but there were several who were very good, who I'd already played against at other times during my trip. I quickly realized that I wouldn't be able to run over the table, and worried that this was typical, since there weren't even any outright superstars there, and still it seemed tough.
Also, the table was extremely tight, initially (what a shocker!). My plan was to establish that I was playing as tightly as everyone else, and then raise pre-flop a little more than the others, in order to engage the 3 weakest players at the table, who all seemed decent but vulnerable. They were lined up in the 9, 1, and 2 seats (nine-handed), and I was in the 6 seat. The two toughest players, I thought, were in the 7 and 8. So, I was hoping to shut them out by open-raising from there, and play the other guys. It worked OK, at first, and I had 14K by the middle of the 2nd level. At this point, I knew my looseness had been noted by the good players, and decided to shift back into first gear.
This worked out well, with me picking up KK UTG in the first hand of my tight phase! But, I ran into AA on my left, and lost about a 3rd of my chips (I posted that hand earlier). Then, I made a really terrible play with a set of Jacks on KQxxJ board, paying off the one kamikaze bluffer at the table, when I REALLY didn't need to (he had the nuts). Finally, I got out on a limb against a good, tight player, planning to bluff him, and then aborting it, when an ugly card hit the turn.
All of this left me with about 5500 in chips, which still seemed like a lot, given that the blinds were 100-200, with $25 anties. But, I was worried that I would need to accumulate chips if I was to be a force in the tournament at all, so I decided not to wait for premium hands, and I pressed. Not reckless gambling, but you know what I mean. Folded to me in MP, I raise to 700 with 66. Folded to the button, who opens for 800, I make it 2400 to go with AJo in the SB. 2 EP limpers, I limp in MP for 200 with 97s. That kind of junk.
Anyway, I was put out of my misery in 2 fairly uneventful hands, where I was heads up with a medium PP against the pre-flop raiser, and he outflopped me. The one I remember clearly played out like this. MP opens for 900, I call on the button with 66. He (lucky55 from Stars) has 20K, and is starting to push a bit. I have 4000 left after calling. The flop comes J 5 2r, and he bets 3600! I move in, and he has KJ. Game over.
So, I played that hand badly, I'm pretty sure. I didn't give up; but I had called pre-flop, planning to commit if the flop had one or fewer non-ace big cards, and my spider sense wasn't tingling. I got a near-ideal version of the flop I wanted. He correctly assessed the situation, and realized that I might call that overbet with a pair less than Jacks. I failed to re-adjust my thinking in the face of that bet, and went broke (I headed off to punch my spider-sense in the nuts).
I think my biggest mistake was deciding to play medium-loose when I was down to 5500. Obviously, the 525 per round doesn't pose a huge threat to my stack, and the chips had started to drift into the hands of tough players. But, at what point do you become desparate to get back to par? Is this a case where I should just be waiting for an extremely good hand, and trying to double up with it? 1.5 double-ups would've got me healthy. Christer Johannsen had been moved to my table with only 3000, and he managed to get it all-in twice, with QQ, and TT. If you've read this far, you're on the verge of sainthood. Helping me out with some guidelines will likely put you over the top.
Thanks,
Cero