Momday Orleans NL Tourney Hand

I consider myself a very good NL Hold Em, having won the tough OrleansMonday NL Hold Em tourney once, and finishing in the money another time, and

having finished in the last 20 players quite frequently. I've only been playing NL for five months, so I'm still learning the nusensce of NL

player. Here's a hand that illustrates that I'm still green and always

learning:


With about 5 tables left, the blinds were 100-200, and I'm sitting with T4500 and dealt QQ in late position. The first two players to act are

short stacked and go all in. I decided I was going to move my entire stack when it

came to me, but unfortunately, Oklahoma Johnny Hale two seats to my right go

all in before me....I put him on AQ, AK or a high pair high because I don't believe Johnny Hale would risk his entire stack on a sub standard hand, but then again, he may telling us that he wants the short stack to himself. My

first instinct was to muck my hand....because I remembered the rule about avoiding late confortations with big stacks, but I figured if he had AK..I was a slight favorite but still a crapshoot. Anyways, after much deliberating wity myself, I decided to go all in. Unfortunately, Johnny Hale had AK and flopped quadKings....to bust me out. Did I make the right play?? In my novice tournament

mind, I keep telling myself I should have mucked my QQ.


Comments??


Incidently, if anyone plays the Orleans NL Tourney...I'm that guy that usually wears the Atlanta Falcons garb!

Usually, given 3 all-ins in front of you, QQ should go in the muck. However, in your spot specifically, I would probably have played.


The short stacks don't have to have much. The first one to go all-in might have been making a stab at the blinds with a hand that's anything. The second short stack probably knows this, and is going in with a hand that is better than average by a good bit, but could easily be any pair, a medium A, or a good K. OKJ likes to shove his whole stack in a lot. Every time I've ever played with him, he came across as a quiet maniac. If he has an "A" game that plays different, I haven't seen it yet. If you replace his name with a player I know to be solid, or an unknown name, the chances of them having AA or KK is great enough that QQ ought to be folded.


Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

"because I remembered the rule about avoiding late confortations with big stacks"


This is a very dangerous mode of thinking and I'm glad you were able to see round it to what was probably the right play.


Rule number 1 : there are no rules. Rule number 2 :-) : principles like this one have to be considered carefully in relation to the situation at hand. Specifically here, 5 tables out, it is NOT late in the tournament, and a big stack is only truly big in this context if you are well in excess of the average chips per player - which is not known to us here because we don't know how many chips there are in play.


So keep thinking on your feet. See also my recent comments about "Draws are Death" which were probably last month sometime and expand on this theme.


Andy.

Thanks for the advice...your right about Oklahoma Johnny. I noticed he either gets to the final table or flames out early. He has an All or nothing style. I've seen him call raises with 87o. I guess there's a method to his madness