Feeling Misanthropic

[vulturesrow]

Some of the recent news headlines here in Virginia Beach are really making start to despise the state of our world. Here are a few of the gems: A woman cut off her infant daughter's arms, a 13 year old boy holds a stripper at gunpoint in an abandoned house, and a married female teacher is found in the back of van with a 16 year old student. This daily barrage of negativity is enough to make me want to pack up the family and move out to a remote location. I am starting to hate people.

[Homer]

You should do what they did in that movie, The Village. That would be cool.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
a married female teacher is found in the back of van with a 16 year old student.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was she hot?

[theBruiser500]

stop watching stupid news programs

[wacki]

Vulturesrow, you are looking at it in the wrong way. Let take a look at it from a scientific/odds point of view. With 365 million people in the US you are going to randomly create some horrible people. Still, considering the massive amount of people in the US, serial killers are quite rare. This is very good news. Now, calculate the number of people that volunteer for red cross, school, united way, big brother, church, etc. Those are all good numbers that are all much much larger than than the numbers child molesters and violent criminals. (I don't count consentual crime) From this we can conclude that most people are not only good, but the kind and caring people far outweigh the bad people. There will always be bad people, use them to help you appreciate the good people in your life that much more.

[vulturesrow]

I dont know but I do know that many of the people I work with know her husband and say he is a really nice guy and is well liked by all his peers. Just made it hit a little closer to home being that he was on the staff I am on right now and some of the guys I work with now know him and were really devastated by this bit of news.

[Rick Nebiolo]

wacki,

like your way of looking at things a LOT more /images/graemlins/smile.gif

~ rick

[ilya]

I am sure that woman had a perfectly good reason for cutting off her baby's arms.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
considering the massive amount of people in the US, serial killers are quite rare. This is very good news. Now, calculate the number of people that volunteer for red cross, school, united way, big brother, church, etc. Those are all good numbers that are all much much larger than than the numbers child molesters and violent criminals.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you sure?

I'm pretty sure that's not correct.

By the way, and not necessarily directly related to the above statement, seriously, I don't consider people volunteering for their own churches or country clubs or whatever necessarily charitable or not self-serving. If a Christian volunteers to help out at a Jewish temple or vice-versa, now we're talking.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure that's not correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

If there are more child molesters, bank robbers, and serial killers than volunteers in the US I will be totally shocked. I will be totally shocked if the numbers are even close. Actually Blarg, I find it really really hard to believe what you say.

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, and not necessarily directly related to the above statement, seriously, I don't consider people volunteering for their own churches or country clubs or whatever necessarily charitable or not self-serving. If a Christian volunteers to help out at a Jewish temple or vice-versa, now we're talking.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your standards are too specific. Just because a volunteer is enjoying helping other people doesn't mean that he/she isn't doing good. I get self satisfaction by building a house for Habitat for Humanity, that doesn't mean what I am doing is selfish.

[Blarg]

I didn't say they're not doing good. At least in any kind of definitive way. Far from it. But the post I was responding to was talking more about being good than doing good.

I'm sure plenty of serial killers do lots of good things too, some perhaps many more than people we would easily consider much more "good." I think you can do plenty of good things without being particularly good at all. And also that many of the things people like to count as "good" are really just self-serving.

I'm also thinking that the people who go notably out of their way in a way that isn't directly or indirectly beneficial to them is fairly small, and I also think criminality is fairly big. Look at how many people are in gangs, even with their whole families and virtually whole neighborhoods, and multi-generationally, and how many are in prisons for not just victimless crimes like owning some pot or crack, but violent and otherwise more serious ones. And these are just our most extreme, out of control cases. And there are literally many millions of them.

What about the smaller things that provide less extreme counterparts? Is a parent taking the blame for their kid's behavior more common than blaming someone else? Is cutting people off in traffic or refusing to let them in your lane so they can get off the freeway uncommon in the slightest? Is it more common to use turn signals or not use them? (In L.A., people virtually NEVER use them. And they never use them by the millions, all day long.) What about the people who create mean spirited or vicious gossip, or at least approve of and encourage it by default by partaking in it and laughing at it, as opposed to those who say, why don't you knock that crap off? or just walk away or change the subject?

I'm not putting any particular relative values on any of these things, but they just show the human spirit and natural impulses and reactions. We're a warlike, brutal, selfish animal -- like many animals when they get the chance, but unlike some other ones too. Sometimes our morals or spirit or whatever may ascend a few rungs of the ladder, but it's always an ascension. Our natural morality and instincts are at the bottom of the ladder, not the top.

Many people go out of their way to do the wrong thing, even terrible things. I think the number who contribute to charities, man soup kitchens, or just do good things for other people in general in ways it really takes anything notable out of them and doesn't benefit them are fairly few. And put under even the hint or suspicion of pressure, I think it's fairly rare that people take a stand or do the right thing unless it comes at very little or no conceivable cost to themselves.

I don't think democracy or any kind of concern for others is inherent or particularly natural. It's both learned, and unlikely. There's a reason why no other country approaches America's bill of rights, and why any kind of meaningful democracy has taken so long to set up in most countries in the world still to this day, no matter what the circumstances of a country. And when people see the results of war and talk about it and say why why why? for the billionth time about the millionth war -- the answer is simple. We LIKE it. Absolutely. It's our nature.

[wacki]

I understand your point. I also think I have a little more faith in the human race than you do. I will discuss later. I have projects to work on. It looks like this is going to be a difficult debate.

As of right now I still believe that most people are good. Be it either from natural good nature, discipline, wisdom, or fear of pain. The effect in most cases is similar. I also believe that people are in general weak and lazy unless motivated by an outside force, then they can be strong an diligent. All of these factors will make you cherish the human gems that much more. Like attracts like and if you are a good person you will find more people like yourself.

I also do not belittle good acts because they are not totally unselfish. If I had a choice between doing a completely nonselfish act and a nonselfish act that was rewarding in someway it would be foolish not to pick the rewarding act. The rewards would encourage you to continue doing good.

More in a few days... have work to do..... 2+2 is addictive /images/graemlins/mad.gif