+EV in a horse-fight?

[DavidC]

Hey guys,

I was in a really interesting situation a few months ago; I had to bet literally two lives on the result: that of AdamL and myself. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

We're naturally inquisitive folks, and we love going for walks late at night (his wife is kind enough to let us do this). We were walking through the outskirts of town, when we came upon a large property with a small stable and two horses.

I'm not particularly thrilled about horses, but Adam wanted to go pet the thing, so we walked down the hill and up to the fence. Once we got there, we realized that there was an opening in the fence. The horse came out through the opening.

I was kinda hesitant, realizing that there could be some danger in the situation, but Adam wanted to stay for a bit, so I stayed too. The horse came right up to us, and Adam tried to pet it.

The horse, presumably male defending its territory and mate, decided to use it's massive head to push Adam back, and was biting at Adam's leather jacket, repeatedly. I told Adam that it wasn't good, and he said that the horse was just hungry, looking for food in his pockets.

We backed up a step, and the horse moved forward a step. The horse again bit the jacket, and it was pretty clear that the situation had gone from bad to worse. I figured that intimidation was the only way to end the confrontation (I couldn't actually beat up a horse, but I sure could threaten it).

So I took a step forward and threw a punch at the horse's head (first time I've ever done that). The horse, amazing enough, dodged my punch! I couldn't believe it.

It startled a bit, took a couple steps back, and stopped. We both sort of looked at eachother and said, "Oh [censored]."

The horse turned and ran about 30 feet. Stopped. Turned around, and then ran back into its stable. We took the opportunity to get the hell out of there.

It was a great victory for me: "I kicked a horse's ass!"

But something nags at me...

There was a serious risk to my health in this situation.

I'm not trying to be too results oriented. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to be alive, but I'm curious as to what the results would be say, over perhaps 10k horse-fights.

By the way, anyone who has any knowledge of horses, such as whether or not they would carry a grudge, that information would be helpful.

For example, what if Adam knew that the situation was dangerous, but decided to let me punch the horse, rather than incur its wrath himself?

In this case, would Adam's EV be higher than my own, or would there be no difference? Was I ever in any danger at all?

What's my EV for letting the horse eat Adam? Would the value of his friendship factor somehow into my EV?

Also, what about if it were a different animal than a horse? Adam and I have discussed this quite a bit, and he's asked me if I would do the same thing had we been in a bad situation with an elephant. I said of course not: that'd be crazy!

Does anyone have any stats on what my EV might be like in an elephant fight as opposed to a horse fight?

I should note that I'm about 165 lbs, 5'11", and Adams a little lighter and perhaps an inch shorter. I'm hella-quick though.

Please send your responses, so that we can rationally evaluate the situation, should it ever occur again.

Thanks,
Dave and Adam.

[Freakin]

Fold Preflop.

Freakin

[aron]

I'd check-race the horse, all the way to the stables.

[Acesover8s]

Canadians. . . hrumph

[DavidC]

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I'd check-race the horse, all the way to the stables.

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No way man, that sounds like Fancy Play Syndrome to me.

[TripleH68]

Biting is normal behavior for horses. If he wanted to hurt your friend he would have, but it is unlikely. As for your swing and miss that horse saw your punch coming from a mile away.

[Easy E]

Fancy Neigh Syndrome, I think you meant


As to your original post..... man, you are one strange character. Too bad you don't live closer, I'd love to meet you! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[DavidC]

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As for your swing and miss

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Keep in mind that I was busy soiling myself when I threw it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[stigmata]

Don't know about horse fights. But I have had similar instances with Cows and Bulls.

I was walking my dog through some cattle fields, keeping an eye on the few males who were mingled in with the females (breeding season - I should of known this was a bad idea...) Then all the cows & bulls just started moving towards me - like some unspoken sign of herd mentality. About 50 of them, slowly coming closer and closer. Eventually I was backed up against a barbed wire fence, 50 cows in a semi-circle around me about 10 feet away. Gradually edging closer. My dog - normally the hard, protective fighter, is cowering behind my legs like a useless lump of jelly. I don't think he fancied his chances this time. I tried the scare tactic (shouting "bang" or some such nonsense), but after backing off about 2 feet, they just edged five feet closer.

Time for an exit. Threw the dog over the fence. Painfully climbed the barbed wire myself. Phew. Escape.

Then all the Cows just start legging it along the fence. Cows - actually running... Oh [censored]. There was a gap a few hundred metres up the fence, which the cows knew about. They were coming to get me.

Had to wait for them to go through the gap and get close enough. Threw the dog back over, scaled the fence the other direction, ran across the field and back to safety over the cattle brigde.

It just felt like Daphne De Maurier's "The Cows". Getting in a fight with a herd is definatley -EV. One man and his dog don't stand a chance.

[AdamL]

That is one freaky story. I bet you never looked at a cow the same way again. That sounds like a scene from "The Birds" except with, uh, cows. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

One horse was bad enough. Big animals should show some more respect. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[AdamL]

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As for your swing and miss

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Keep in mind that I was busy soiling myself when I threw it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

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And despite Dave's good intentions of saving me from the hungry horse /images/graemlins/wink.gif, I was none to pleased with the punch either. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[stigmata]

Freaky Indeed.

I saw the farmer a little while after and approached him about it. He replied in a broad, country accent

"Was feedin' time".

Not sure if I felt better or worse after that.
What did they intend to eat, other than grass?

[DavidC]

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, I was none to pleased with the punch either.

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That's because you're LP-P. You gotta get in there for as little risk as possible, then you aren't even prepared to put your life on the line when you get there! :P

[DavidC]

Yeah, I hear ya, man. Multiway pots can be really tough... throwing your dog over the fence can hardly be considered aggression though.

...

Seriously, though, cows scare the hell out of me. I was rooming with a recreational farmer once, and he told me that he had a young bull who wanted to play one day. He had to hit it a few times with a 2x4 before the bull backed off.

It kinda sucks to have to have treated the bull like that, because the bull wasn't being aggressive, just playful, but it was important to do at the time.

Cool story, though.

[AdamL]

[ QUOTE ]
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, I was none to pleased with the punch either.

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That's because you're LP-P. You gotta get in there for as little risk as possible, then you aren't even prepared to put your life on the line when you get there! :P

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Nah, if I was LP-P I'd have stayed in. I think I was weak-tight postflop, and you were just crazy LAG. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[PokerNoob]

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But something nags at me...



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GROAN!

[jokerthief]

I don't think that it is possible to have +EV in a horse fight being that you're Canadian. Same thing with cows for Britons. Now, if you are American it is almost certainly +EV because you would have a 357 Magnum at your side or a Glock 9. The 357 plays better heads up and the Glock 9 does better in multiway pots, so I would I would take the 357 against the horse and the Glock against the herd of cows. In either case I wouldn't want to see a showdown.

To sum up Canadians and Britons should fold pre-flop and Americans should push. The elephant is still -EV for the Americans however.

[MelchyBeau]

You don't think some of the newly legalized weapons can take down a Elephant?


Melch

[smoore]

weapons that can take down an elephant have been legal for years, using an assault rifle or submachine gun would definitely be -EV.

Of course, the .357 does well in multiway pots too, because when it goes off everyone says "HOLY S***!" and ducks.

[bogey]

no way your punch would have hurt the horse one bit, much more likely you break your hand, be glad the horse dodged it

[CORed]

Both the .357 and the Glock are overkill. Both horses and cows will nearly always back off if you throw a rock at them. You usually don't even have to hit them.