Good all in, or wait?

[spekkyboy]

At the final table in casino; 10 players, 10 payouts. I'm UTG with $6,000. Blinds are 4,000 and 2,000. I'm going to be blinded out.
I get 9T diamonds. I go all in, not to steal (bad position, BB has big stack and sure to call). Lose to KK in mid position.
With the blinds coming, this seemed like a decent hand. Or should I have waited for something better, at least a face or ace, and take my chances?
There were two smaller stacks than mine at the other end of the table. If I were to survive the blinds, they might have busted out. Does this make a difference?

[TStoneMBD]

i think youre better off just limping in here rather than pushing because if your hand has any chance of holding up you might as well get multiway action. this is certainly the hand that youre getting the money in with because while it may not be as strong statistically in a heads up situation as the next hand you pick up, this hand gives you a good chance to quintuplet up.

[nsj]

huh?
you have three hands MAX left. Your choices are to push here, add 2K to your BB the next hand, or lose that 2K in your SB.... unless I'm an idiot and I'm reading this wrong.

Push every time. Folding means you put your tournament life on the line with two random cards -- likely to be wore than 9Ts.

Limping is useless here...

[spekkyboy]

Thanks for the post. I hadn't considered limping. It might have given me more action, although the table had some good players and decent stacks. If someone was going to call, they more than likely would come in for another half bet.
I suppose limping does give me the option of folding if the flop completely misses me (which it didn't, I caught a T), and putting the last $2,000 in the BB. Would this have been a good option too?
By the way, this was limit poker.

[davidross]

I would wait the one hand and play my blind for everything. I would play an Ace or King here, but not Ten high.

THe real trick is not to let yourself get so short stacked. before making a stand. If you ended up there because you lost a pot, then it can't be avoided, but if you were blinded down to there, then you waited too long.

[BigToga]

Limping is just foolish here so forget it...

There's some missing info here - what position were you? I'm assuming UTG or UTG+1. If that's the case, you have 8-10 more hands to "make your stand with" and, in the meantime, those smaller stacks could've busted out and you get more $$$.

Also, what's the difference in payouts between 10th and 7th? If 10th pays $200 and 7th pays $250, who the *&^% cares whether you get 10th or 7th - go all-in with 9Ts. If 7th pays $400+ though, now you might sit on your hands until you either get an A or K or better or are blinded off.

I don't know - tough call... If you were in early position though with a 9Ts and had at least 6 more hands to go (til you die from blinds), I'm probably laying it down and waiting for two random cards that have a K or A or better.

[DapperGent]

I wouldn't even bother looking at what cards I was dealt before pushing in this position.

[mason55]

With the blinds coming up next (at least that's what I assume from the post) then you're just counting on getting a K or A the next 2 hands. When you get K2 or A5 a lot of times you're going to get called by better kings or aces, leaving you with 3 outs. At least by pushing with 9Ts both your cards have a chance to be live. And, hot and cold, 9Ts is a decent hand.

[BigToga]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't even bother looking at what cards I was dealt before pushing in this position.

[/ QUOTE ]UTG w/ another 8 hands before the blinds come around???? Wow - come play in my tournaments /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
With the blinds coming up next (at least that's what I assume from the post) then you're just counting on getting a K or A the next 2 hands.

[/ QUOTE ]He's UTG in a ring game, not MP+2...

[tigerite]

I wouldn't push with mediocre hands with less than 2bb. But this is not one. Have to put your chips in the middle here.

[Lurshy]

I prefer to have an Ace, but you easily could have two live cards, so play isn't terrible.

If waiting 2 hands may have forced other short stack all-ins, you could have moved up a spot so that is and argument for waiting as well.

[spekkyboy]

Thanks for the advice.
Just to clear things up, the blinds were directly on my right. I would be the BB in the next hand.
Would waiting have been a good option here? My thought during play was, "I have medium suited connectors. Even though draws are horrible at this stage, at least I have a straight and flush draw. I may be forced to go in with worse cards in the blinds."
Now I'm thinking, "Chances are I'm going to bust out in the next three hands. If I fold here, I have a shot at better cards in the blinds. I may get trash cards too, in which case I am no worse off, and there is a small chance someone else may play and bust out."
Your thoughts?

[BluffBlank]

Since when would someone UTG or UTG+1 have 8 - 10 hands to go with only enough to pay the BB and the SB? If he folds this, he puts 4000 in next hand as the BB and his last 2000 in as the SB the next hand. That's 2 more hands max. I would take this as a random hand to go in, as you have a decent enough chance at getting 3 - 4 callers, and hitting a nice straight or flush to get a big enough stack to move up in money.

edit: I think you're confusing UTG with the Button or CO (Cut-Off) which would give him 8 more hands. UTG (under the gun) is when you're the first to act, sitting to the left of the big blind.

-Bluff

[zaxx19]

J9 SUITED auto push for me here......... This is a playable hand normally...It has flush potential and straight potential.. and hopefully 2 live cards..oh and against that AK monster its 40-60%% isnt that funny. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ZootMurph]

When you're shortstacked, and even more so when you are about to blind off, you need to just pick and hand that feels lucky (AA feels pretty lucky to me, by the way), and pray to the poker gods.

As for the specific hand... T9s is as good as any to take your stand. So I don't think it was a bad push.

[Stork]

[ QUOTE ]
As for the specific hand... T9s is as good as any to take your stand. So I don't think it was a bad push.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think it depends on the table conditions. If the table has generally been playing tight, I'd probably pass on this hand because even though T9s is in general a better hand than say Q6o, heads up, Q6o becomes the favorite. If the table is loose, however, as in it is rare that the pot will be contested heads up, T9s fares much better than Q6o, and I'd push here.

[DaffyDuck]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As for the specific hand... T9s is as good as any to take your stand. So I don't think it was a bad push.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think it depends on the table conditions. If the table has generally been playing tight, I'd probably pass on this hand because even though T9s is in general a better hand than say Q6o, heads up, Q6o becomes the favorite. If the table is loose, however, as in it is rare that the pot will be contested heads up, T9s fares much better than Q6o, and I'd push here.

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends on your goal. If you're talking about wanting to triple/quadruple up and have a chance at the big money without regard to whether you bust now, then limp and hope to get as many players in as possible before you get all-in on the flop. This is probably not the path I would pursue.

However if the goal is survival to hopefully move up in the money and gain time to wait for another opportunity then, while it is true that T9s will fare better than Q6o in a multiway pot, it's odds of actually winning the pot go down the more players are in. You can certainly come up with situations where several people are in the hand and 9Ts is the favorite, but it will still be much less than 50% to win. So, if your goal is to get the best chance to either win the blinds or double up and stay a little longer, push.

Bob

[DapperGent]

[ QUOTE ]
UTG w/ another 8 hands before the blinds come around???? Wow - come play in my tournaments /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
As I read it he's UTG preflop and the next hand he will be BB for 4K out of his 6K stack. I'm honestly pushing from here with 72o. If he's down that low his only hope to improve on finishing tenth is to double (triple really) through immeadiately.

If he pushes now he will has a chance of doubling through and capturing the two the blinds - essentially tripling through. He knows that to survive here he needs to get seriously lucky either by winning this hand or getting dealt a miracle holding on his BB, this way he would chose his spot maximising the earning power of his tiny stack rather than having the spot forced on him by the blinds and earning less if he does get the luck he needs anyway.