An interesting post from "The Zoo"...thoughts?

[zuluking]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1306888&page=0&view=e xpanded&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1#Post1306969

[SomethingClever]

If that works, they need to fix it ASAP.

I thought you had to post dead + blind if you skipped either blind... maybe there's a glitch.

[DeuceHigh80]

You miss paying the small blind but you're also giving up your shot at the button aren't you?

Maybe it's intentional and they're effectively saying the fact that you're giving up both the small blind and the button are a wash?

[zuluking]

[ QUOTE ]
You miss paying the small blind but you're also giving up your shot at the button aren't you?

Maybe it's intentional and they're effectively saying the fact that you're giving up both the small blind and the button are a wash?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would think its a +EV to give up the button by not paying the SB. Am I wrong in that line of thinking?

[Ajax410]

No - I agree with you completely. If you can skip the SB, that is a big +EV move, even if it means losing the button. I hope party fixes this right away...

Alex

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You miss paying the small blind but you're also giving up your shot at the button aren't you?

Maybe it's intentional and they're effectively saying the fact that you're giving up both the small blind and the button are a wash?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would think its a +EV to give up the button by not paying the SB. Am I wrong in that line of thinking?

[/ QUOTE ]
My EV from the Button: .13BB/hand. My EV from the SB: -.06BB/hand. Consequently, I'm losing by attempting to cheat the system this way.

I love the button too much to give it up here.

Rob

[mmbt0ne]

It should not be a +EV move for anybody to skip the SB and the button. Check your PT stats. If you add your button and SB EV/hand, do you not get a positive number?

[itsmesteve]

wouldn't the positive number have to be greater than the cost of the SB for the positive EV of the two positions to outweigh not playing the blind? is my thinking wrong on this?

[jdl22]

It depends, there are two statistics given. One is including the blind and the other is excluding it. If you look in net amount that considers hands including the blind money you put in. If you look at difference w/o blinds that excludes it.

In my small sample and most others I would be better off just paying the sb and then getting to be the button.

[itsmesteve]

thanks. . .

[HajiShirazu]

With my stats this would be a horrible move. In fact my EV from the button is higher than the -EV of SB and BB put together. You can really crush people if you know how to play with position.
But I am running good over the 15k sample I have.
Edit: I just checked again. I lied. +.11 bb/hand from button, -.09 from BB, -.06 from SB.
Oddly enough my highest EV position is UTG. Gotta love sample size.

[zuluking]

If you play the SB and BB it costs you $1.50 to see 10 hands, or 15 cents per hand.

If you skip the SB and CO it costs you $1.00 to see 8 hands, or 12.5 cents per hand.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

[Peter Harris]

the swizz is if you collude, like the example shows, and you miss paying BB AND SB and re-enter in the CO for FREE! Sample size or not, you'd have to be a really g00t player to find that passing up the button and not paying BOTH blinds was a -EV play.

Basically, whilst for most it's a -EV play to pass up the SB and button, this needs to be fixed for the (minority of) occasions when someone learns how to pass up the BB AND SB [and button], like the example showed.

The best way you can argue this to Party support is saying that if people get wise to this, pots will be smaller and they'll get less rake. I guess.

Regards.
Pete Harris

[Entity]

I agree that you could pull this off if you could somehow skip both the BB and SB, but from what I've seen, you have to collude with someone else to pull that off. Collusion is definitely -EV, as it wouldn't take Party long to catch on to two people doing this routinely.

In terms of skipping the SB and the button, that's definitely -EV for me. The button is just worth too much.

Rob

[Peter Harris]

i don't have a big enough sample to comment, but i'd *never* pass up just the SB to skip the button. But i honestly believe to skip both blinds "legitimately" [i.e. without 'colluding', but still not honouring the etiquette of posting], i'd pass up the button without a thought.

[srt19170]

Yep, I've seen this. I was at a table where I regularly skipped the big blind because of this. Which was fine by me, of course! The first time it happened I was so baffled that I went back and looked at the hand history. I was thinking, "Man, I know I'm blase but I can't believe I completely forgot playing the big blind!"

I have to admit I wasn't smart enough to figure out the skipping both blinds part.

-- Scott

[jdl22]

You don't actually have to collude. If you happen to be sitting in front of a player that always skips his SB you could just play along and not pay your blinds. I think a bigger problem is that even if you aren't explicitly colluding the good folks at party could definately think you are. Especially when all the other players send them messages about it.