Two cards UTG

[SmileyEH]

PP $30

Table is 5 handed with blinds at 100/200. I have 925 UTG. What range of hands would you push with assuming the rest of the table has you covered?

-SmileyEH

[David04]

only pocket pairs, 9's or higher, or AJ, AQ, and AK.

That's probably too tight.

[willperkins]

AA-22, Ax suited, any hand that adds to 20 or better, any suited connectors 54 or higher. I would continue to push until my 3 x BB raise is less than 40% of my stack. Once I reached that many chips, I would back off a little.
I feel you need to either gather enough chips to put yourself in position to win the tourney (or finish in the money), or bust out and get on to the next tourney.

[Benholio]

Depending on the other stacks or any additional info, I would push with most Aces here, even A2o A3o unless I have a good reason not to. Add that to any pair, KQ, KJs maybe. I'm really more happy here with a bad ace than middle suited connectors, those hands never really do it for me shortstacked/shorthanded.

This is the last hand you are going to have any fold equity unless you win a showdown or get a gift in the blinds.

[ChrisV]

A9, KT, QT, JTs. I'm not thrilled about going any lower just because my hand is suited. I think A9, QT and KT are pretty marginal already. I might go to A8s.

For pairs, 66 and up - I think I'll let 22-55 go.

Note I'm not very confident in this answer - it's a difficult question. It's the kind of thing that's very table dependent as well.

[ChrisV]

Depending on the other stacks or any additional info, I would push with most Aces here, even A2o A3o unless I have a good reason not to. Add that to any pair, KQ, KJs maybe. I'm really more happy here with a bad ace than middle suited connectors, those hands never really do it for me shortstacked/shorthanded.

I think this is very misguided - KJ is a far more solid hand than something like A3. It's a much, much better performer against a lot of the kind of stuff that people call with - small and medium pairs, AQ, AT and lower. The only hands that it performs significantly worse against are KQ and KK.

[adanthar]

Table dependent but if it's on the tighter side, A5+, ~K7-K9, 20 or higher, any pair, 98s+.

You need to push with a wide range here since the blinds will be 150/300 soon and you'll have no FE.

[Benholio]

[ QUOTE ]
Depending on the other stacks or any additional info, I would push with most Aces here, even A2o A3o unless I have a good reason not to. Add that to any pair, KQ, KJs maybe. I'm really more happy here with a bad ace than middle suited connectors, those hands never really do it for me shortstacked/shorthanded.

I think this is very misguided - KJ is a far more solid hand than something like A3. It's a much, much better performer against a lot of the kind of stuff that people call with - small and medium pairs, AQ, AT and lower. The only hands that it performs significantly worse against are KQ and KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the reply. I've always suspected that I am too quick to fire with the lower Ax hands late in the game like this, but never really been sure enough to pull back on them. I suppose moving the big broadways ahead of A2-A5 might be in order.

I still like the crappy aces better than hands like 56s-9Ts shorthanded, have I atleast gotten this one right?

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
I still like the crappy aces better than hands like 56s-9Ts shorthanded, have I atleast gotten this one right?


[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is fairly level dependent. The lower the level the more valuable hands like K8s as a push become. As you get higher in limits hands like TJs and even 9Ts gain more value as a push hand.

I dont mind being wrong here, but if I am I want to know so I can evaluate and adjust.

[Irieguy]

Hmmm. I think everybody is really off, here.

But more importantly, I think the CrisV/Benholio discussion is really worth some comments. Thank you both for spurring some thought on this.

Knowing your Hot/Cold values is crucial to short-stack and late stage play. But just because hand "X" is higher than hand "Y" on the chart... doesn't mean it's a better push hand. You really have to know how to adjust your pushing/calling standards depending on how others are playing and how they perceive you. Also, good hot/cold push hands are often poor hot/cold call hands... and this isn't just the gap concept.

Push equity = folding equity + pot equity against likely calling hands.

Call equity = pot equity against likely push hands.

This makes the lists look quite a bit different from one another... even when both lists are long.

Irieguy

BTW- for this hand your push list should be the top 169 hands or so.

[soxfan70]

I push here with any PP, any A, and any two cards higher than an 8.

[ilya]

AJo+, KQ, 66+

edit: probably also ATs, maybe A9s

[zephyr]

I push with almost any two here, I'd say:

Any A,K,Q,J, Ts, all suited connectors, all pairs, any two cards over 8.

You've gotta get your money in first in this situation, and if you wait till the next hand you'll probably be in a calling position for your stack.

Am I way too aggresive here?

Only my opinion,

Zephyr

[zephyr]

I replied before I looked at others replies. I can't believe how we differ so much here.

What are your reasons for not pushing hands like A7s or 55 or QJs etc?

What are your assumptions for opponents calling standards in a typical party $30?

Zephyr

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
I push with almost any two here, I'd say:

Any A,K,Q,J, Ts, all suited connectors, all pairs, any two cards over 8.

You've gotta get your money in first in this situation, and if you wait till the next hand you'll probably be in a calling position for your stack.

Am I way too aggresive here?

Only my opinion,


[/ QUOTE ]

I think the more hands you push here the better, as you pointed out in 2 hands you are down to 3bb, you need to gamble here, you almost want the call to give you a chance.

Just my opinion.

Regards Mack

[Jason Strasser]

Holy Toledo I can not believe some of these weak ass tight responses.

When you play a SNG, you should salvage the chance to win chips and build a stack without going to showdown. The more times you go to showdown, the less control you have of your situation.

Of course when you do actually go to showdown, the two exact cards do matter. But in a game with big blinds which rapidly grow, you can not afford to wait for AK-AT, 66-AA here. In most cases, I would not have put myself in this spot where I was UTG here. More often than not I'd have already found a better spot to push. If I did find myself here, I would probably be shoving everything, unless the person who would be in the SB while I was in the BB loved to fold a lot.

Seriously, what's the better alternative? Eat the blinds, and have to win a showdown to double up? Or perhaps steal the blinds and increase your stack? As one person said correctly (IMO), your folding equity gets destroyed once you eat these blinds. The difference between a 925 and 625 stack is just huge, esp. when the blinds may go up again soon, which is a safe assumption in a SNG.

Get those chips in the middle. Build your stack without a showdown. And if you get called, you will not be in DEEP trouble very often.

-Jason

[ChrisV]

I don't agree with the idea that the best way to avoid a showdown is to move in here. For starters, people know about these UTG desperation allins and LOVE to snap them off. I've been called by stuff as bad as 22 and A8o in these situations (by mid position players!)

Secondly the idea that you give up all chance at FE by folding here is wrong. Even in an ideal world you would still have FE in the SB if it folds to you. But the SNG world we live in is far from ideal. You might know that the pot odds are going to justify a call whenever you raise, but the majority of SNG players, even at the 200 level, don't. I see folds all the time getting as good as 4:1. 3:1 is certainly not regarded by most players as anything like an auto-call.

I guess the point of our disagreement is that you get more fold equity raising with 925 through 4 players than you do raising with 725 through one player, or 625 through two players. I don't think this is true. Furthermore, when you are called, you are in DEEP trouble, as you put it, far more often when you're trying to run the steal through 4 people. Factoring in the fringe benefits of folding (it may fold around to you in the BB, you may pick up a monster, etc) I'm not that keen to chuck my stack in UTG with any two.

Looking at my recommendations again they do look a little tight. I think they're about right for 6 handed. For 5 handed I'll relax them to Q9s, A6s kind of level. Probably any pair as well.