JJ should come with their own documentation...

[jadowa]

I never know how to play jacks in mid-early stages of MTTs.

Here is an example, please let me know how you would play...

Party $30+3 Blinds 150/75 Tourney Average t2500

UTG t2000
UTG+1 t4200
UTG+2 N/A
MP1 (Hero) t3900

Hero is dealt JJ
UTG Limps t150
UTG+1 Raises t450
UTG+2 Folds

Hero?????

Thanks for your input...

[willperkins]

I fold to the raise. You still have plenty of chips and don't want to get into a sticky situation such as this. If UTG1 had limped, I would also limp and hope to hit the set. If everyone folds to me in MP I raise 3XBB.

[TheGremlin]

Rerais, T600 - 800.
if the guy go all in I call and hope for the best.
if the guy rerais, than u have a choice - fold or push all.

[jadowa]

Thanks for the input... I did fold preflop. I don't think there is anyway I would not have called an all-in reraise. I'm interested, what is the advantages of that?

[Lurshy]

I call or raise. If I raise, its another 450, so 900 to go. Folding is too weak here. Thats without any other reads on the table...

Calling may allow others in behind you? or is this 4 handed in which case I definitely reraise.

[binions]

[ QUOTE ]
I never know how to play jacks in mid-early stages of MTTs.

Here is an example, please let me know how you would play...

Party $30+3 Blinds 150/75 Tourney Average t2500

UTG t2000
UTG+1 t4200
UTG+2 N/A
MP1 (Hero) t3900

Hero is dealt JJ
UTG Limps t150
UTG+1 Raises t450
UTG+2 Folds

Hero?????

Thanks for your input...

[/ QUOTE ]

I play jacks for set value from early to mid position when the blinds aren't worth trying to win.

Here, you aren't getting 7 to 1 implied odds on the call (ie how much can you win if you hit and get it all in), unless UTG or someone else calls too. Further, you can't be sure of a re-raise from the UTG limper, who could have a monster. So I would fold.

[zaxx19]

I really dont get why folding is so bad here and why playing JJ for set value in EP is incorrect??(IN FACT ILL LIMP IN EP WITH IT!!) Someone explain to me why you want to get a ton of money in the pot IN EARLY POSTION with JJ in a reraised pot??What flop am i looking for?? I never want to be here. And as for calling an all-in with JJ early in a tourney(again i can only speak for tournies i play in) I just dont have the faintest reason why you would do this?? Are you hoping to see 10-10?? Seems like the range of hands he could have makes even the biggest "RAYMER POSITVE EV AUTOMATON CHIP MOVER" take pause.

Calling an all-in with JJ early in a tourney???
How bout 10-10 then or 9-9?? Where exactly do you Raymer disciples draw the line early in a tourney??

If someone calls my all-in early in a MTT with JJ i'll be saying PRESSSSSTTTTTTTTTTOOOOOO!!!! ALL DAY.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
What flop am i looking for??

[/ QUOTE ]

One with no aces, kings, or queens or one with a jack in it.

I'll also call with tens and sometimes nines if I don't fear a reraise behind.

[betgo]

I would call. You are getting close to the implied odds for a set, particularly if UTG flat calls. An underflop is tricky, but you have chances there. If the UTG player reraises, fold.

There are situations to reraise with jacks, but I don't like it here. You have an early position raiser and an UTG limper, either of which could have a higher pp.

[SossMan]

Haven't read any replies, so sorry if I repeat (although I kind of doubt this line will be popular):

I don't mind a flat call there unless there are crazy players behind you who will make wacky all in rerereraises w/ 66.


If the reraisers range of hands are AA-TT, AK/AQ (pretty typical) then I like playing a flop. The only way you are going to be making a flop mistake is when he happens to have an overpair and the flop comes w/ three undercards to your pair. (or he has TT and the flop comes T high).
As far as your call inducing others to call behind you...I'm kind of okay with that since I can now play more for set value vs. set/overpair value.

The only thing I fear is the UTG raiser pushing and the reraiser pushing and I'll have to dump it. That situation will usually not happen when we have the biggest pocket pair (occasionally they will both have AK or something like that) often enough to worry about it.

In short, don't be afraid to play flops when in position and be more inclined to fold/raise when out of position.

-sossman

[SossMan]

I really dont get why folding is so bad here

it's not sooooo bad. just a little bad. seriously, I don't think folding here is giving up huge gobs of EV. I just think that calling has +EV, so that's what I'll do.

Someone explain to me why you want to get a ton of money in the pot IN EARLY POSTION with JJ in a reraised pot??

After a raise, reraise and a call, you are no longer truly in EP. I hope you can see why.

Seems like the range of hands he could have makes even the biggest "RAYMER POSITVE EV AUTOMATON CHIP MOVER" take pause.

What range do you put him on? Do an EV calculation based on that range and an array of flops that you go all in if there are no A,K,Q (unless there is a J, too). Instead of spouting general "I would never go all in w/ JJ early", why not actually do some analysis to back up your "hunches".

How bout 10-10 then or 9-9?? Where exactly do you Raymer disciples draw the line early in a tourney??


TT and 99 are only different because then JJ would definitely be in both ranges of hands. We are then playing significantly more for set value and less for overpair value.

If someone calls my all-in early in a MTT with JJ i'll be saying PRESSSSSTTTTTTTTTTOOOOOO!!!! ALL DAY.

That's because you are so weak tight that you would have reservations w/ reraising with anything other than AA-KK.

[scottjf8]

But I'd ask myself - what kind of flop do I like?

If I call here, and the flop is TJQ, I've flopped my set, but if the first raiser had AK, I might be in trouble, unless I get a board pair on the turn/river.

And if that flop is TJQ and he pushes, do you call? Or if he bets a pot sized bet, are you calling or pushing?

[TonyBlair]

True. True.

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
But I'd ask myself - what kind of flop do I like?

If I call here, and the flop is TJQ, I've flopped my set, but if the first raiser had AK, I might be in trouble, unless I get a board pair on the turn/river.

And if that flop is TJQ and he pushes, do you call? Or if he bets a pot sized bet, are you calling or pushing?

[/ QUOTE ]

You can come up with all sorts of fun hypotheticals, but you will never be able to account for the various combinations of postflop betting (assuming it's not heads up).
I will, however, tell you my postflop plan.

If I flop an overpair (without an OESD, i.e. the flop isn't 89T), and there is a bet and a raise to me, I'm folding. If it's a bet and a fold to me, I'm going to play poker (i.e. determine the size of the bet in relation to the pot and range my opponents hands based on frequency dealt and proceed from there).
If I flop a set, I'm going to the felt no matter what (with some weird exceptions like the flop is TJQ all one suit, and it's two all ins to me).

If the flop has even one overcard and there is any appreciable action, I'll fold.

Pretty standard, no? I think the stacks are deep enough to warrant playing JJ here.

[jadowa]

Thanks for all of the replies... I did think about flat calling it and seeing a flop. It was about a toss up in my mind. I went the safe route and just folded.

JJ defined the whole tourney for me. Later when I had t10,000 and blinds were 500/1000 I raised 3BB with AQ and button (who was a total CS with around t10,000) called me. Flop hit AJT and I pushed - He called with Pocket JJ. I hit runner runner A,Q to end his tourney.

I made it to final 6 and was 5th in chips with t60,000. I was dealt JJ. UTG raised blind 2XBB and I pushed from button to see QQ and end my tourney.