100-200 Hand. Give up on the turn?

[Chief911]

Relatively new to the $100/$200 game. But had a decent line on villian. Sorry no converter. Do you give up when he 3-bets you on the turn knowing you'll have to pay 2 BB uninproved to see if trips make it?

Nick

PokerStars Game #890320925: Hold'em Limit ($100/$200) - 2004/11/24 - 19:09:34 (ET) Table 'Tone' Seat #7 is the button Seat 1: pianolegs ($1297 in chips) Seat 2: TopDog1 ($3196 in chips) Seat 3: zoilykey ($2327.50 in chips) Seat 4: NhuocThuy ($3776 in chips) Seat 5: leela ($1800 in chips) Seat 6: Money800 ($4653 in chips) Seat 7: Veganboy ($7517.50 in chips) Seat 8: Striker 10 ($8356 in chips) Seat 9: Chief911 ($5391 in chips) Striker 10: posts small blind $50
Chief911 said, "no heart"
Chief911: posts big blind $100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Chief911 [7c Qd]
pianolegs: folds
TopDog1: raises $100 to $200
zoilykey: folds
NhuocThuy: folds
leela: folds
Money800: calls $200
Veganboy: folds
Striker 10: calls $150
Chief911 said, "lemme guess, he's a striker for..."
Chief911: calls $100
*** FLOP *** [8s 7d Tc]
Striker 10: checks
Chief911: checks
TopDog1: checks
Money800: bets $100
Striker 10: calls $100
Chief911: calls $100
TopDog1: folds
*** TURN *** [8s 7d Tc] [7h]
Striker 10: checks
Chief911: checks
Money800: bets $200
Striker 10: folds
Chief911: raises $200 to $400
Money800: raises $200 to $600
Chief911: calls $200
*** RIVER *** [8s 7d Tc 7h] [Ah]
Chief911: checks
Money800: bets $200
Chief911: calls $200
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Money800: shows [Jd 9d] (a straight, Seven to Jack)
Chief911: mucks hand
Money800 collected $2697 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $2700 | Rake $3
Board [8s 7d Tc 7h Ah]
Seat 1: pianolegs folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: TopDog1 folded on the Flop Seat 3: zoilykey folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: NhuocThuy folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: leela folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 6: Money800 showed [Jd 9d] and won ($2697) with a straight, Seven to Jack Seat 7: Veganboy (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 8: Striker 10 (small blind) folded on the Turn Seat 9: Chief911 (big blind) mucked [7c Qd] - three of a kind, Sevens

[Paluka]

If you were going to fold this hand, you should have done it preflop.

[surfdoc]

I am not playing this limit but I can't see any way playing Q7o out of position for a raise can be anything but -EV.

[Chief911]

So with 3 people already in the pot you wouldn't call 1 bet from the BB? Obviously I would not cold call 2 bets, but 1 from the BB?

Nick

[Your Mom]

If you don't know why you should fold this preflop, I don't think you should be playing 100-200.

[NabO]

Clear fold preflop but we have to answer to your question. Obviously Money800 is a really good player (Chris Moneymaker) to say the least. Then he can play a large variety of hands preflop ( even for a raise ) in order to outplayed you postflop. But can he reraise the turn on a draw here or call the PFR with A7, T7 or K7? I don't know... But i think sure that a draw was the only think you could beat here. 88, TT, and 87's are possible even if i think that he attacks the flop with bottom 2 and even probably with a set cause any J, 9, 6 on the turn give a one card straight . J9's was the most probable possibilty and in fact you played the hand on the turn as you had to ( but your call on flop was bad too). Even if i don't think playing J9's for a raise in that kind of game ( highly aggressif )don't have a positive EV for the large majority of us.

Excuse my poor english..

[Gabe]

Nice hand.

[James282]

Bad call preflop. But you have to call the turn because against his most likely holding you have a lot of outs. He might also be goofplaying a hand like KK or AA.
-James

[MarkD]

[ QUOTE ]
Nice hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Including pre-flop?

[Senor Choppy]

If folding the turn is a serious consideration in this game, you shouldn't be playing in it.

Preflop should be a clear fold, as well.

[Tosh]

Hi Nick

Calling preflop is pretty bad here.

As for postflop, I think its ok.

PS You've been here long enough to know to make your hand readable for a hand post!

[ClaytonN]

Chief,

What hands were you expecting moneymaker to call two bets cold with on the button? Did that affect your play on the turn at all?

[random]

I think TopDog is an expert for open raising in EP then checkfolding the flop. As for the hand, calling one more with q7o can't be much worse than calling two cold with j9s. And (being results oriented) calling the turn three-bet was clearly correct as you had ten outs.

The line about you needing to tighten up preflop because someone like Money800 will outplay you postflop is crap. If flopping straights against your turned trips is outplaying you, then "you got served." Still, though, I would have folded preflop.

[mikelow]

Fold preflop. Nuff said.

[Chief911]

Tosh,

I know, darn converter does not appear to work.

ClaytonN,

Yes. I really put him on a big ace. But if you have watched Moneymaker play, he is fairly loose PF. At the point that he 3bet me, I was going to see what he had again, because he had showed down aggressively some very mediocre hands.

Random,

Thanks for the comments. I was in the game because moneymaker donates quite a bit in that game. Of course, I turned into the donator.


Everyone,

If your only comment on this hand is going to be fold preflop, I believe that I have received that message loud and clear. But go ahead and say that if you want the post count.

Nick

[ClaytonN]

I watch the 100-200 game sometimes just to see how guys like Moneymaker, Dustin, Keller, and Benyamine play (at least limit/mathematical wise).

Clearly, when talking EV the obvious answer is to fold PF. However, hand discussions like this are valuable for discussing postflop play in 100-200.

What can we learn if all we can tell them is "I wouldn't have played it that way from the start?". There are going to be times when we make PF and postflop mistakes, should that hinder us from discussion plays outside of this "error"? Of course not!

Chief,
I too know that Moneymaker is a LAG player PF, at least he's proved as much in the sessions I've watched him. He seems to be tighter postflop, but I dunno.

Anyways, the turn reraise screamed to me that he held a suited connecter or gapper, filling in some monster hand ( straight, boat). I highly doubt he'd make such a bold move on the turn with something like AT, A9, etc.

[Tosh]

Seriously it only takes 2 minutes to write it out.

As I said postflop (IMO) was ok, but preflop was so basic it probably needed saying several times.

[Gabe]

When the good cards aren't working...