How long have you been playing seriously?

[zephyr]

I've been curious of how long some of you have been playing poker seriously. I've been at it for around 7 months, and still find that I have a tonne to learn. I'm curious about some of the veterans on this board: eastbay, stupidsucker, Aleo, Strassa, Daliman, Gigabet, Zee, etc.

Also, what was your learning experience/curve like? Where did the biggest gains in your game come from (books, experience, 2+2, mentors/coachs, etc)?

Zephyr

[ilya]

I am not one of the worthies you mention, but I'll throw in my 2c. I've been playing seriously since the end of July. So about 4 months I guess? I play too much for my own good, about 200 MTTs and 1500 SnGs in that time. I read some books in the spring before I really started playing: ToP, HPFAP, Super/System. I started reading 2+2 in the summer, and spend a lot of time here reading and getting into flame wars in the OOT forum. I.e. I have no life.
I started by playing the $10s on Party and have since moved up to the $20s/$30s. I was a winning player almost from the very beginning, but a below-average one, at least for this board: my ROI, even at these low limits, is in the low teens. I am currently trying to improve my ROI and build my bankroll & confidence before moving up in limits.

[zephyr]

Thanks for your input. I appreciate all responses, and only gave a list to help entice some responses from those people as well. I wish you continued success!

Zephyr

[Unarmed]

First played poker (any kind) last March.
Been seriously playing for two months.

I've already gone from being a complete neophyte, to feeling like I had the game mastered, and back to where I am now. (taking a break from SNGs to bonus wh*re b/c I'm depressed at my 19% ROI)

BTW ilya/zephyr the quality of your posts belie your lack of experience...

[zephyr]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW ilya/zephyr the quality of your posts belie your lack of experience...

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps my lack of proper English. I've got over 1000 $20 under my belt with an ROI in the mid 20's.

Does everyone else find my post really boring/newbie?

[Unarmed]

Haha...I know you've played a good amount of poker Zeph /images/graemlins/grin.gif
I basically meant that if you've been at anything for 7 months you're by definition still somewhat of a newb IMO. This makes me an absolute rookie of course.

I was just sort of shocked that you and ilya haven't been at this for a couple years.

[lorinda]

Played live tourneys every day from 1993-2001 Intenet poker most days since then.

Edit: "Every day" means over 300 tourneys a year.

Lori

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
Played live tourneys every day from 1993-2001 Intenet poker most days since then.

Edit: "Every day" means over 300 tourneys a year.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait...I thought you played poker for a living? How high is your ROI that you get by on 300 tourneys a year? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[lorinda]

How high is your ROI that you get by on 300 tourneys a year?

It was almost precisely 100%

Lori

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
How high is your ROI that you get by on 300 tourneys a year?

It was almost precisely 100%

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

I am so confused. Are you talking about MTTs?

I have no humor sense!

[lorinda]

My fault, dodgy wording.

I used to play 300 a year MTT, now i play slightly more /images/graemlins/tongue.gif than that in SNG /images/graemlins/blush.gif

Lori

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
My fault, dodgy wording.

I used to play 300 a year MTT, now i play slightly more /images/graemlins/tongue.gif than that in SNG /images/graemlins/blush.gif

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

No worries.

If you don't mind, can I ask why you made the switch?

[SmileyEH]

Played my first hand of holdem in january of this year. Didnt start playing SNG's seriously (read: actually developing my game and winning) until late August.

-SmilyeEH

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
eastbay, stupidsucker, Aleo, Strassa, Daliman, Gigabet, Zee, etc.


[/ QUOTE ]

You have no idea how elated I am to be mentioned with those names.

If you are counting only SnGs I have only been "serious" since exactly July 1st 2004.

poker "seriously" for just a little over a year now. I thought I was serious about 3 years ago, but I have since learned I was just another chump at the time. I was winning, but with stupid mistakes such as really really bad bankroll goofs.

Hehe I was so lucky to have turned $1500 into $18,000 playing 30-60. I had no idea I was way in over my head. When I drained my account to $5k and lost it I was furious.

I still have a lot to learn, but I am very confident about my play at the level I am at. ($30+3). I desperatly want to move to the 50s and 100s, but my bankroll and lazyness keep me from it. Poker is different when it is the only source of income you have.

[zephyr]

Sorry to get pissy with you. I just had a rough day at the tables, 12 OTM in a row, and although I know that this shouldn't affect me...it still does.

I'm blaming it on my new monitor...actually, I can't do that. The upgrade from my old 800 X 600 monitor is so great that even 30 OTM in a row won't make me spite it. I think my greatest poker skill is being able to 4 table with an 800X600 monitor /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[zephyr]

The reason I thought of your name was that you've been one of the more influencial poster in my poker life. Although I sometimes think you're an ass (no offfence intended). Typically, I need someone to be blunt with me for the message to get through my thick head.

I've always very much respected you're opinion though.

Zephyr

[Guy F]

Hi - Just wondering what you regarded as "playing seriously" for the purpose of the discussion. One definition might be "sole source of income" - which would be rather serious indeed. But it could also mean something a bit less dramatic, like "actively trying to identify and plug leaks", "temper excessive aggression or passivity", "move up in limits", "add a second source of income", etc.

Me, I started playing a bit over a year ago when a broken leg put me out of my rec hockey league for 4 months. I deposited $50 at PS and have never had to add money beyond that. But I consider that I only got "serious" when I started paying for coaching a couple months ago. I've always won a little, but nothing in the range of turning a couple hundred into many thousands. The novelty of playing finally wore off and now the competitive aspect of the game has taken over as my prime motivation. Now I don't care about the money so much, I just want to win and that means bigger tourneys. So I have to improve and my learning style has always been that I get more from talking to someone than from reading - hence the coach. I envy people who can get more from reading because, A) it's a lot cheaper, and B) there's a lot more reading material than good coaches.

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
The reason I thought of your name was that you've been one of the more influencial poster in my poker life. Although I sometimes think you're an ass (no offfence intended). Typically, I need someone to be blunt with me for the message to get through my thick head.

I've always very much respected you're opinion though.

Zephyr

[/ QUOTE ]

No offense taken. Sometimes I am an ass. Both in the moron sense of the word as well as the jerk sense. I am not nearly as blunt as some of the other posters (William comes to mind).

I strive to make myself and the other people on this forum a better poker player. I am not afraid to mix things up to get people thinking. Sometimes I have to even make myself look stupid in order to do this. Disagreeing with vetern posters is not always received well here.

I am really happy that any of my posts help someone in their poker game.

[adanthar]

After playing maybe an hour of poker in my life, last November, I was bored and looking for something to do so I deposited $25 at UB.

One month and three deposits later, I was pissed at losing so I went on RGP, did some basic research, borrowed my friend's books and embarked on some serious studying.

In late December, I made a fourth deposit which I vowed would be my last. I ran it up to $200 a month later, and then got a free $50 from a Party affiliate in late January.

On February 28'th, the account stood at $2,342, most of it due to blind luck. As of today, many setbacks and a whole lot of better play later, I've made around $8,000 and planning on doubling that by the end of next July when I'll need the money.

2+2 (first the books and then the forums) has been by far the biggest help in all of this. The posts here are invaluable and each new concept/posted controversial hand noticeably improves my play every time I apply it.

I'm not done learning but I feel I am an immeasurably better player now than I was, and that I can beat this game long term given the opportunity. We'll see.

[byronkincaid]

First deposit onto Stars after I heard about Moneymaker winning the WSOP so say Juneish 2003. First 2+2 poster sng Feb 2004 (felt very nervous), left work August 2004 to attempt to make poker my living. I can't believe it's been that quick, feels like it's been years. Hope it's not January 2005 go back to work. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Gramps]

I'll take the plunge and go semi-OT on this one.

Been playing seriously for 16 months - "pre-serious" consisting of maybe 25 home games over 10 or so years prior. After playing in 4-5 in a span of 2 months against some players who had some clue, I realized I had no clue, did an onlline search to figure out who the best poker authors were, and bought HEP and HEPFAP on Amazon (and later WLLHE).

Read, reread, reread some more, opened a Stars account and played, reread, played, reread (repeat) until after a couple of months I was probably a small long-term winner at low limits. Then decided I was going to learn tournament poker, bought and read T.J.'s book, starting playing nothing but multi's and the occassional SNG on Stars. Learned about the poker hand calculator at www.twodimes.net (http://www.twodimes.net) and started learning about the values of hands in all-in situations (plugging every single all-in I saw into there), got better at playing the short stack, got lucky and cashed a 2nd in a MTT, proceeded to give 1/3 back in a week playing a lot of SNGs, realized I didn't have the patience (nor probably the knowledge) to play them, decided to never play another SNG unless I was 100% committed to playing my best (patience), and decided to go back to limit but switch to Party $5/10 6-max.

Had fun with swings (there's variance in poker?), ekked out a small profit over 6 weeks, realized I still didn't know as much as I thought I knew about limit, started perusing 2+2 online, read about people multitabling $2/4 playing ABC poker, and this thing called Pokertracker. Hmmmm....

Bought Pokertracker, dropped down to 3 tables of $2/4 to learn how to multi-table, soon learned I was bleeding $$ with JTo from MP and other garbage (wow, the books really were right!), tightened up, started turning a pretty good hourly rate. Read 2+2 at work everyday (er...during breaks only /images/graemlins/wink.gif), read the David Ross posts, started thinking hmmm....

Bought the 21" flat screen monitor, moved up to three tables of $5/10 6-max, started turning a decent hourly wage, quit my job (it was project work, I was looking to bail ASAP and move on to something entirely new).

Played 50,000 hands or so per month at $5/10, was slowly working up to $10/20 6-max with the intention of moving there and $15/30 full time when I started dabbling in NL SNGs for the hell of it (a little wiser from playing in a few more MTT's, thinking about tournament strategy, and being much more patient). Played a few $55s, got lucky and did well. Played 2 $109s along with a MTT, lost both. Played 2 more during the same MTT, won both. After the MTT was over, I played 4 $109s at the same time, did well...after 30 or so more running hot, I dabbled in the $215s, got hot for my first 50...found SNGs more stimulating than limit and less taxing (fewer decisions to make/things to keep track of per hand)...started doing the math in my head on what ROI = what hourly rate...that was 4 months ago.

For SNGs, that poker hand calculator has been the most helpful. And learning the basics from T.J.'s book was probably good too, because if anything he advocates playing super tight early - yet also talks about the importance of shifting gears at the right times (e.g. bubble), etc. 2+2 has been huge as far as fully comprehending the variance/bankroll requirements of poker (and learning of the existence of pokertracker).

And I like to think I have a clue now, because I do have a clue, but also because I still realize that I don't have a clue when it comes to everything in poker, and I probably never will, even though I'll keep learning and trying to get as close as I can to having "all the clues." If that makes any sense...

[Irieguy]

I've been playing seriously for 15 years. Online since Paradise Poker started (6 years??).

Switched to SNGs as my primary game from MTTs and live omaha at the beginning of 2004. But I still play the others as well as live MTTs.

The most important thing in learning poker is discussing the game frequently. This forum counts, but having somebody to talk to in person is much better.

Irieguy

[eastbay]

I played my first hand of real poker about a year ago (not counting kitchen table 5 card draw for pennies.) I am a classic "WPT moron" who didn't stay a moron for long. IMHO, of course.

My game went from clueless to decent after following Greg Raymer's threads religiously for awhile. I also learned a lot from Bozeman and a few others.

I definitely learned most of what I know from these boards, on top of some basics from the Sklansky/Malmuth books.

eastbay

[AleoMagus]

I played B&M Limit hold'em and Omaha pretty seriously for about a two years when I was in University (about 5 years ago now). I had read TOP, HEP, HEPFAP, and a few other 2+2 books way back then. I was playing maybe 10-15 hrs/week of 3/6/12 and 5/10 but I don't think I ever had a bankroll bigger than $1000 and really did not understand why I would need it. In truth, I think I was pretty lucky not to go broke.

I then stopped playing almost completely for three years (joining the military can do that) until I happened to get in a game while on a trip in Halifax a year and a half ago. Internet poker had just taken off, and when I returned to Victoria, I found that there were no live games (that I knew about at the time) so I started playing online.

Well, at that time Party was maxing out at about 10,000-15,000 players online and the internet boom has only increased since then. I was immediately drawn to SNG poker for some reason and have played primarily SNGs in the past year. When I released from the forces (a little over 1 year ago now) I had a LOT of time on my hands and actually did not work for about 5 months. That was a big time of learning for me and I was getting in 200-300 SNGs/month and NOT multi-tabling. I now work 2-3 days/week and get about 200 SNGs/month multi tabling.

It is actually somewhat strange to see myself in a list alongside guys like Gigabet, Strassa, Daliman, etc... though, because while I like my contribution to this forum, I am really just a small timer still. I've never regularly played beyond the $33 level and I have never even played a single $215 SNG.

It's also strange to say it, but my interest in poker lately is probably as much academic as it is based on profit. I can guarantee my time would have been better spent this past year playing a lot more, and learning a lot less about Statistics, Game theory, Probability, and Excel. Now I am learning Java as a result of poker and it's also eating into time I could probably better use playing. Whatever. Poker would probably not be nearly as interesting to me otherwise.

I really think that time is needed to gestate some of the poker info that comes at you. It's odd, but I found that when I came back to poker again and read TOP for the first time in years, it made more sense than it ever had. Poker in general took on a new perspective for me and I know that those years off had not been altogether stagnant.

Regards
Brad S

[PrayingMantis]

First meeting with poker was about 1.5 years ago, on ESPN channel, in the middle of the night. Here in Israel nobody cares much about this game. I thought I could be good at this, so I started learning about it on-line (read tons and tons of posts on 2+2, for instance, before playing even one hand, and also at other sites), bought me some basic books at amazons, and started playing for play money on different sites, almost only SNGs, as they are played more "realistically", even if you play for play-money (that's because everybody wants to finish first, and "honour" is sometimes not completely different from money... /images/graemlins/grin.gif).

Eventually I deposited $50 dollars, and played with it as much as I could at low buy-in games on sites where it was possible. I lost it all, at some point, as I was not more than a breaking even player (and wasn't too lucky too, I guess).

I never deposited again, since just then I won a free $15 bonus on TGC, and made it into a few $K BR playing SNGs, NL ring and MTTs on several sites (and being lucky enough not to bust early...). I gradually moved up in limits, and for the last 8 months or so I'm making enough to actually live out of my poker winnings. Hope this poker-craze will stay around... but who knows.

[skirtus]

Good Post. Sometimes I forget why I even started playing online. I had no poker experience. Just played the crazy everythings wild kitchen poker with friends a couple times a month. I started playing online to learn how to play poker. Got tired of losing to my friends and have them bust my balls about how badly I suck. Now when they call, I have to make lame excuses why I can't play because I'd rather spend my time playing online. They just started playing SnG style tournaments lately. They cant believe how lucky I got the other night. Won 3 in a row!

[1C5]

[ QUOTE ]
Good Post. Sometimes I forget why I even started playing online. I had no poker experience. Just played the crazy everythings wild kitchen poker with friends a couple times a month. I started playing online to learn how to play poker. Got tired of losing to my friends and have them bust my balls about how badly I suck. Now when they call, I have to make lame excuses why I can't play because I'd rather spend my time playing online. They just started playing SnG style tournaments lately. They cant believe how lucky I got the other night. Won 3 in a row!

[/ QUOTE ]


Hahahaha, that is too funny. I am a total beginner and have been asking people on 2+2 for advice, got my 1st 3 books ordered...

Some of my friends play tournament NL hold em evry week but I have never played. Can't wait to start playing those games sometimes also...

[2planka]

I view poker as a hobby, so I don't take it too seriously.

However, if by "seriously" you mean studying, analyzing, practicing, trying to understand and beat the game etc. then my answer is:

16 months.

Biggest breakthroughs? Reading Supersystem and this forum have helped, but really just practice, practice, practice. Somewhere along the line my perspective changed, too. I stopped focusing on the money aspect of poker and began to view it more of a game of skill - sort of like chess - that had worth in itself. In other words, my game really started to improve when I focused on making correct decisions rather than chasing dough. Seems so obvious in retrospect, but it was a huge breakthrough. The dollars are just a way to keep score. I enjoy the challenges the game presents.

[Jason Strasser]

Z,

I've been playing poker for about a year online while in school. I love multi-table tournaments more than anything, and that's how I really got my first break in poker. I cashed in 100 bucks a year ago, and got 4th in a multi for 1k. Played in the 30 sngs without too much of a clue. I love to take shots at higher limits. So while I was doing OK at the 30s, I always was thinking about just getting enough juice to try and take a shot at higher tournies or big multis.

So for a while all my profits went into failed attempts at various type of multis, until one day I was coming home from my girlfriends house in a taxi on a monday night in the summer and I looked at my watch. It read 8:40. I wanted to play in the super monday, I felt good that night. I got second, won 17k. Moved up to the 100 and 200 sngs, and 5/10 NL game on stars. I have actually started using tracker much more recently than most, but my ROI in the 200s is right around 10% over my first 400. I sense it to be around the same, maybe closer to 12-13% long term.

Anyway, I want to try to play some more big tournies... Right now I'm trying to build a roll so I can take more shots at bigger events.

-Jason