Was It Really That Bad? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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IggyWH

11-24-2004, 07:26 PM

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 raises, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, UTG+2 calls.

River: (8.75 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 8.75 BB
Main Pot: 8.75 BB, between Hero and UTG+2. > Pot won by Hero (8.75 BB).

Results in orange below: 
UTG+2 has Ks Qs (one pair, queens).
Hero has Ad 9d (one pair, aces).
Outcome: Hero wins 8.75 BB. 

================================================== =========

I got belittled pretty bad by this guy after this hand and he made sure I knew that he added me to his buddy list. He was quite pissed that I kept raising him. Was it really that bad of a move? I figured since I was heads up with the guy and I hit 2 diamonds on the flop but didn't pair anything, my only chance of winning the hand was hitting my flush (obviously from the results I was wrong but that's not the point). Since I believed my only way of winning was to hit a flush, I decided to try to build up the pot with raises after the flop and turn. I wasn't getting pot odds to raise... but I also wasn't getting pot odds on just calling. Ajax410's post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1174623&page=&view=&sb=5& o=&fpart=1&vc=1) says heads up you should just check/call unless you think you can take the pot with aggressive play. My raise after the flop was to try and buy a free turn card. When that didn't work out and he bet though, I figured my best move was to stay aggressive and it would build up the pot more if I got lucky.

So that leaves me with my original question... was it really that bad?

CWsports

11-24-2004, 07:28 PM

fold preflop with only 1 limper in

shadow29

11-24-2004, 07:35 PM

Anyone like betting the river?

CWsports

11-24-2004, 07:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone like betting the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, when checked to on the river I bet.

IggyWH

11-24-2004, 07:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone like betting the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

In hindsight I should have bet the river. Like I said in my original post though, I didn't consider a pair of aces could win the hand so when I didn't hit my flush, I was happy I could check after the river and find out my pair of aces were best.

Ajax410

11-24-2004, 08:09 PM

Hey Iggy -

I think your biggest mistake here is calling pre-flop - A9s is not a hand you should cold-call with nobody but the raiser in the pot. I think that your raise on the flop to get a free card on the turn was fine - especially since there is a chance that the pre-flop raiser will lay down his hand to aggression on the flop - unfortunately it didn't work.

Where you make a mistake is in raising the turn. Raising to get the pot big in case you get "lucky" is a pretty silly thing to do. The fact is, you're only going to make your flush 19.6% of the time by the river, and your 3 aces have to be discounted to around 1.5 outs. The way I see it, that leaves you with 10.5 outs, which means your pot equity is somewhere around 23% - clearly not enough to legitimize your raise on the turn.

I think that, once your free card play doesn't pan out, you need to just call the turn.

When he checks to you on the river, you need to bet - I don't see check/raise attempts very often on the river. If he does check/raise you, you need to consider laying down the hand (though the pot is definitly pretty big...so a call might actually be better). All in all, I think you made a very loose, but not terrible, pre-flop decision, an overaggressive turn raise, and a passive river check. I think your flop play was very good - especially because of the amount of thought that went into it.

Hope this helps - if you have any more questions feel free to PM me or post here.

Alex

IggyWH

11-24-2004, 08:21 PM

Thanks for the reply Alex. I think this might be the first time I was ever in this situation. Why I called a raise with A9s in the CO in that situation is beyond me. It's not something I really ever do but a bad preflop decision doesn't mean I'm doomed in a hand. I posted this hand so I can get advice that if I ever do make a dumb preflop decision such as that, I can play the hand correctly in the future. Since this was new ground for me though I had to think on the fly and wanted to know where my thinking was correct and where it was wrong.

Entity

11-24-2004, 08:27 PM

Fold preflop & don't raise the turn.

Rob