Question from a Newbie

[BatsShadow]

Hi Everybody. I'm new around here. Let me tell you my story. Then I have a few questions.

I started off at Pacific Poker on the demo money side. Back then the site was relatively unkown I guess, because even with play money, the play wasn't that horrible (people would actually fold, not capping ever pot, etc.).

When I signed up on the real money side to freeroll, I was awarded by some special promotion with $10. Never deposited a cent. After I felt like I was good enough, I started playing their 0.05/0.10 game. With a lot of hard work, I doubled my money, and therefore doubled the stakes.

Just last week my bankroll hit $70 and I decided to try the 0.25/0.50 game. I totally caught a bad streak of cards so I dropped back down. My BR is currently a little over $50.

My plan is to keep working my way up the stakes, building a nice bankroll, and maybe someday play in the WSOP. I have had dreams of going pro, but don't know if I'd really want to play full time so I think my current idea is just to play at a comfortable level and use some of my poker earnings kind of like bonus money.

Ok, a few questions:

1) I know everyone recommends 300 BB to play at a certain level, but do you guys think that less is ok if you are disciplined enough to drop back down when you lose some? I'm still planning on trying the 0.25/0.50 again when I get to $70. The idea is, if I drop back to $50, I lost and have to go back down to 0.10/0.20 again. I suppose you could look at this as "taking a shot" as many times as it takes. Has anyone done this type of thing?

2) What do you guys all have against Pacific Poker other than it doesn't work with Poker Tracker? The only other thing I can see that isn't cool is that it doesn't let you multi-table. BTW, I'm currently considering working on a piece of software to export stats from Pacific Poker, possibly enabling them to be imported into PT.

3) I am curious about what you all know about the lower micro stakes I play in, but I think that's worthy of a different thread.

[Bodhi]

Welcome to the forum!

Is #2 really true? You can't export to PT and can't multi-table? /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/mad.gif Good God Man! Save yourself! /images/graemlins/wink.gif If you have any intention of remaining profitable at higher limits online then you will need to use PT.

WSOP? Who knows. Practice, practice, practice.

[zram21]

You want to give yourself a 300 BB cushion because you don't want to have to drop back if you suffer a 40 BB down swing. No matter how well you play you are certainly going to run into a 40 BB downswing at some point. The 300 BB rule gives you some flexibility to ride out the downswings. There is certainly nothing worng with taking a shot at a higher limit and if you play well it is very likely that you won't actually need a 300 BB bankroll at such small stakes. However if you have to keep dropping back everytime you hit a cold run of cards it is going to take you a long time to move up through the limits.

[BatsShadow]

Yeah. The multi-table thing I don't get, but as far as not exporting to PT, to me it's no big deal. I mean, I only have $50 in my BR and I've already spent like $100 on books, so I don't really think spending $50 on a piece of software at this point in my "career" is justified.

The things I really like about Pacific is that I think the interface is, while less feature-complete, also far less ugly and/or cluttered than other sites I've seen. Also, the freerolls are the best I've seen so far. Cash-Payout freerolls everyday.

I started playing with another $10 of free money on Royal Vegas yesterday. Up 0.71 in about 1.5 hours :P That site lets me multi-table, but haven't tried it yet. I was playing on both sites at once yesterday though.

[Jingleheimer]

Pacific is very nice. I did the same as you, depositing $20 about 5 months ago. I've worked it up to $750 since then, changing levels when I get to 300BB.

Waiting to 300BB is a good idea, as other posters have suggested, because you have to drop back down after a -40BB swing, but also because the play is slightly different and the money is psychologically different.

You may have acquired bad habits at the lower level you may not know you have, and those habits will become evident when the fish/table drops from 7 to 5. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Also, when you go up a level (say from .5/1 to 1/2) a -15BB session, while routine is now costing you $30 instead of $15, and it can affect your confidence, which is the worst thing that can happen. When you've got the bigger roll, it's a smaller fraction and you won't be as concerned.

One nice thing about Pacific not supporting PT, you don't have an army of 2+2er's data mining the tables and then multitabling like crazy. But it does suck when you want to post hands. I find their history viewer sort of blows and it makes it quite a pain to post hands hands here for feedback unless you have a good memory.

Good luck
J

[Malcom Reynolds]

I know everyone recommends 300 BB to play at a certain level, but do you guys think that less is ok if you are disciplined enough to drop back down when you lose some?

Well, basically it works like this. If an expert plays with a certain standard deviation and certain winrate, he expects to never be on a losing streak that will exceed 300 BB.

So the problem when you play outside of your bankroll is that you have a chance to go broke. I feel that it is better to stick to one limit and learn how to play it well, one that is within or closer to within your bankroll. Once you have proven you can beat it and grow your bankroll for the next limit, start taking shots at the next limit and move up when you feel comfortable.

Usually people move down after losing for a while to regain confidence, but I don't think that moving up and down limits because you are on a short bankroll is a good idea.

What do you guys all have against Pacific Poker other than it doesn't work with Poker Tracker?

Pacific Poker is extremely profitable, I made my first $500 in poker at the 3/6 tables there. They are loose and passive. That said, I left as soon as I cleared the bonus (which took forever) because I really hated the software, and also wanted to multi table. Poker Tracker didn't support it either, and that alone was worth moving.

[Greg J]

Good questions all. Welcome to the forum! I got my start at the nanolimits, so I will weigh in with some thoughts.

[ QUOTE ]
1) I know everyone recommends 300 BB to play at a certain level, but do you guys think that less is ok if you are disciplined enough to drop back down when you lose some? I'm still planning on trying the 0.25/0.50 again when I get to $70. The idea is, if I drop back to $50, I lost and have to go back down to 0.10/0.20 again. I suppose you could look at this as "taking a shot" as many times as it takes. Has anyone done this type of thing?

[/ QUOTE ]
When I was playing .05/.1 when I was at PS, I decided to take what I considered a "safe shot" at the .25/.5. I didn't play at Pacific and Paradise did not yet have .1/.2 (or .25/.5). I took 50 BBs and went for it, hoping to run well. I did, thankfully. If I lost that $25 I was gonna move back down to .05/.1. There is nothing wrong with taking a shot, as long as you are prepared to move down if you run badly.

[ QUOTE ]
2) What do you guys all have against Pacific Poker other than it doesn't work with Poker Tracker? The only other thing I can see that isn't cool is that it doesn't let you multi-table. BTW, I'm currently considering working on a piece of software to export stats from Pacific Poker, possibly enabling them to be imported into PT.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, if you did that you'd be a phuking hero on the whole forums, right up there with bison's converter. Good luck with that. As for games, I think Paradise has nanolimit games almost as good, plus MUCH better software and has PT compatability.

[ QUOTE ]
3) I am curious about what you all know about the lower micro stakes I play in, but I think that's worthy of a different thread.

[/ QUOTE ]
You are in the right place. This is the lowest stake forum. I feel a little guilty since (as far as I know) I was the first to ever use the term nanolimit, and it kinda spread, so as a result people think it might belong in a seperate category. I posted many nanolimit hands here, and never got grief for it. If anyone ever got onto a poster for posting about .02/.04 games here I would flame them so hard thier mamma would cry.

Again, welcome to the forum.