QQ vs. 2+2er......turn decision

[MHarris]

CO is one of the most aggressive 2+2er's I've played with.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, <font color="CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero caps</font>, CO calls.

Flop: (9.33 SB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls.

Turn: (5.66 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">CO raises</font>, Hero.....

a) calls and calls a bet on the river
b) folds
c) kicks himself in the groin

[Fat Nicky]

Normally I would fold here. But is thsi 2+2er is really that aggro, calling down might be an option. Still, I would probably lay it down.

[cnfuzzd]

You are behind. Hopefully, an aggressive 2+2 goes crazy on the flop with JJ or TT, possibly even KK. The action on the turn seems to indicate that you are against AA, AK, or KK. I would normally call and fold the river unimproved, since im against a 2+2er, but i want this 2+2er to stay just as aggressive, if not become more so, so i fold immediatly, hoping he takes more shots at me later.

peace

john nickle

[Nick C]

I think Hero should either fold or call both the turn and the river. Hero's chances of improving aren't very good (if he's behind, only a queen helps him). I don't think Hero should continue unless he thinks there's a decent chance he's ahead.

I would fold the turn, unless I thought Villain would make plays against a preflop capper when a king hit the board on the turn. I guess if Villain thinks Hero wouldn't cap with AK because he might be behind and would just call with AA or KK heads-up for deception purposes, then Villain might be making a play. But I think it's more likely that the Villain either has TPTK or can beat it, so I would fold.

[sthief09]

you're screwed

[MHarris]

So you think I should kick myself in the groin?

[nepenthe]

Hero calls the preflop 3-bet.

Hero check/calls the flop.

Hero check/raises the turn.

Boo. Yah.

[spamuell]

[ QUOTE ]


Hero check/calls the flop.

Hero check/raises the turn.

Boo. Yah.

[/ QUOTE ]

This would be fairly bad. If he has AA/AK, he won't fold. If he has TT, JJ, AQs, you'd much rather let him take another stab because he's drawing thin-dead.

I could see your argument with 99, because obviously getting him to fold QQ-TT would be good. But with QQ? Why would you want to give your money away like that?

[nepenthe]

Because to do so would be less painful, albeit not by much, than kicking yourself in the groin which the poster seems deservedly apt to do anytime now.

¡Olé!

[Walrus]

I think Hero should either fold or call both the turn and the river.

I agree. Normally, I have been calling down in these situations, but I think I need to start being more receptive to what this turn raise means.

[MHarris]

As an interesting sidenote, I tried this line about 3 orbits earlier against this opponent. It was unsuccessful, and I think he's only capable of folding a worse hand than mine in that spot.

[StellarWind]

d) realizes that he misplayed the hand and shouldn't be in this spot

[ QUOTE ]
CO is one of the most aggressive 2+2er's I've played with.

[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly how is betting the turn supposed to help you in this situation when a king hits? Betting the turn:

1) Allows him to fold the many 2-out or 3-out hands he could have.

2) Exposes you to frequent raises. At best you lose the substantial EV of two outs when you bet-fold instead of checkcalling. But we are all aware that you may also be losing the entire pot versus this player.

The better play is to check-call. It will be difficult for this player to resist betting his worse hands. You may easily make more money versus worse hands from inducing bets than from betting.