Medium Pockets

[morgan180]

Here's a hand from last night which has raised a nagging doubt in my mind lately - medium pocket pairs 55-88/99 play for set value or use as a stealing hand?

What would you do here?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t1160)
Hero (t965)
MP (t1745)
CO (t925)
Button (t1525)
SB (t1680)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="CC3333">Hero ???

[skirtus]

Typically, I dont limp when I have less than 10xBB. I would play them for steal value only. 77-99s are borderline pushes for me in early position and these would be dependent on the types of players yet to act and their stack sizes. I could see limping if you were in late position and several limpers in front.

[pshreck]

I actually fold this. Its one of those situations where you are probably the best hand... but if your push gets called, then you can expect to be a coinflip or worse. So its like risking your stack to often get the blinds, and sometimes lose your stack. I risk with it at the 100/200 level when the blinds REALLY mean something, and when the blinds come through they will cripple me. Here, neither of those things are true. Adding 150 chips to your stack doesnt do that much, and one more round of blinds and you'll still have a healthy stack.

Wait for a better position... button or 1 off, and push with your hand then.

[ilya]

I drop 'em here. Your stack's too small for a limp and too big for a push - at least in this position. I would probably push this on the button, though.
You could throw in 3xBB raise if your table was tight (esp. if it was tight-passive), but that's not likely to be the case at the lower limits.

[morgan180]

I agree - I think the fold is the right move. A 3x BB raise is going to get me in for a large chunk of my stack and if I get called and see any type of scary flop I'm going to have to dump any way.

If I push and get called I'll be *AT BEST* in a race.

Thanks for the advice.

[mart_ph]

I pretty much agree with all of the above. Your stack's too small in this position to limp in. It's also not small enough to push all-in. And it certainly not worth raising to steal just this size of blinds.

If I was in the cutoff or on the button I may well limp, depending on how aggressive the SB and BB have been playing.

I know there's not much in it, but I'd feel happier pushing all-in with Ax from this position than an 88, 99 or TT.

[ChrisV]

I hear what everyone's saying about folding and I would fold a lot of pairs here, but I think eights are a bit good. I'm prepared to raise to 300 and fold if reraised.

This is a game texture question really though. If you get reraised a lot, that's obviously going to be a disaster. In a game like that you have to fold them. I'm fine with getting smooth called, though, so I'm only folding in an aggressive game. If you fear getting smooth called you should work on your post-flop game. Realise that the hands that are smooth-calling you are either lower pairs (which is great) or double-overcard (which only flop a pair 30% of the time). You can check scary flops like Axx. Most people don't have the stones to just shove their stack in without the goods, often you can check raise weak bets.

[willperkins]

The choice is to push or fold. I do not like limping in this position. If the table is weak/passive, I would push. If I was not sure, I would fold and wait for a better spot. I really do not want a call here and get into a coin flip situation or worse run into a big hand and be dominated.

[bugstud]

depends on when the blinds go up. If they're going up next hand I'm pushing, if I have time I muck.

[ChrisV]

Just reread this thread and noticed that the Hero has 965 chips. For some reason the first time I read it I thought Hero had BB's stack of 1100+. Hero's reduced stack means raising and folding a reraise is a bad option. I think fold is right.

[Roman]

I guess im the only one here, but I always push 6 handed with 8s and less than 10x.

[morgan180]

so i pushed, unfortunately ran into a monster - i just wanted to see what the community felt...without the results skewing anyone's opinion.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (6 handed)

BB (t1160)
Hero (t965)
MP (t1745)
CO (t925)
Button (t1525)
SB (t1680)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t965 (All-In)</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP raises to t1745 (All-In)</font>, <font color="666666">4 folds</font>.

Flop: (t2860) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t2860) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

River: (t2860) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t2860

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Hero has 8h 8d (one pair, eights).
MP has Qc Qh (one pair, queens).
Outcome: MP wins t2860. </font>

[raptor517]

well, he has about 950 chips, so to raise to 300, then fold to a late position reraise, would be a terrible error. there would, at that point, be 750 in the pot, and you would be getting greater than 2to1 on your call. think about what a person would reraise with 6 handed. ak and aq would occur just as often as an overpair, even moreso, as people will push with ajs as well on occasion. i think you would be committing a fatal error to raise and fold to a reraise. folding 88 here is, in my mind, usually necessary, as the blinds are small enough that you can still have some time to double up on a better hand. save your chips, fold 88.