Did I go all-in at right time?

[frankg]

Single table home tourney, started with 8, down to 4.

Blinds were 300/600

I was small blind with T1800. Dealt A3s. UTG folded, UTG+1 raised to 1200. Because he only raised one BB compared to his past betting habits, I smelled a little bit of weakness. Calling here is asking to be beat. I figured I had to fold or raise. I went all-in, re-raising another 900. Button folds. Original raiser calls, leaving him with about T1000 left.

I'll post the result later. My question is did I pick the right moment to go all-in? I had 3 BB left. Should I have been more patient?

[UMTerp]

Need info about other stack sizes, payout structure, etc. And if you're going to play the hand, it doesn't much matter if you raise or call - the money is going in regardless.

[jah0550]

Stack sizes are unimportant IMO. You only have 3BB left and the table is 4 handed? This is an autopush I believe. Any times I get even 6-7 times the BB, I will push with any hand similiar to that one, ie. 33, Ax, K6 or better... You can't afford to sit back and wait for a monster, because you will be blinded out in the next 4 hands. Although someone raised, you still have to push IMO.

[stillnotking]

I don't like this push at all. The most likely hands for the early raiser are Ax (where x > 3) or a medium pocket pair, either one of which dominates you. You are better off going all-in with a random hand against another random hand than going all-in with A3s against A9-AK or 44-99.

[morgan180]

When you push you want both your outs to be live. A3 is going to be be beat by any ace other than A2. So if you get called you probably have to think that your ace is no good leaving you only your three to work with.

I don't know about your home tourney but early min-raisers online (at least at the $10/20 level) have a tendency to hold a monster looking for some action, even with four people.

So, I fold, pick the next spot possible (preferably an unraised pot if one comes before you get blinded) and push!

[UMTerp]

[ QUOTE ]
Stack sizes are unimportant IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not true - what if someone is smaller than you, and 3 spots pay?

And I agree with the other responses - A3 is too likely to be dominated. You either want two cards with paint or a pair if you're calling, or you want to be first in when you push.

[frankg]

Ok stack sizes: Raiser had ~T2000 left after his raise. I had T1800. Button had ~T4000. So if I push at this moment it would make it a 900 re-raise (i was small blind at 300/600 level). Button faces a 2100 bet.

Now, my reasoning behind my push was that I saw weakness in a 1BB raise by someone who would have raised at least 2BB with a pocket pair or two court cards. I was 90% sure I had him beat with my ace, and the button has to use half his stack to call my push, and he's a tight player so he would only call with premium cards. I wanted to push at a time that would cause some damage. If I just call I only have 1.5 BB left. If I wait any longer I could be blinded out or be pushing with only 1BB. A call from the raiser would leave him crippled, not even 2BB left.

Results:
Raiser thought for a while, then called. He showed K7. I was correct in my read. He made a bad call IMO.
He flopped a 7. No help came for me. Game over. Overall, I was happy with my push. But you guys made a good point that I shouldn't have pushed with a dominated hand like A3s. Although I was ahead pre-flop, the 3 doesn't help me if he catches even just one of his cards.

I really am trying to work on my thought processes in these push situations. Are there any considerations I'm leaving out?

[UMTerp]

[ QUOTE ]
I was 90% sure I had him beat with my ace

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is really true, then it's obviously a good push. I don't understand how you could be 90% sure you were ahead though.

[ QUOTE ]
Results:
Raiser thought for a while, then called. He showed K7. I was correct in my read. He made a bad call IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

No offense, but if you really think that was a bad call, you have a lot to learn about short-stack situations in tournaments. There were 3900 chips in the pot, and it took 900 more to call. He would be correct to call with any two cards there, especially a hand with a king in it.

You did get unlucky, but that doesn't make his call bad.

[Lucky Clubs]

Contrary to some, in a home game I like this push. Not sure what your read was on the players involved, but in most of the home tourneys I've played, people show no qualms about raising with JT, K>8, any face card that is suited. With the big blind coming to you next, I think you are resigned to taking the chance that the raiser has a face but not an ace. If he doesn't have an ace, at least if neither of you hits the board you can't lose a high-card race. Let's say you did wait for the next hand: what are the odds that your next hand will offer better odds than the A 3 in relation to the other three hands at the table? At this dire point, beggars can't be choosers IMHO.

[frankg]

UMterp, I DO have a lot to learn. I admit this. One of my weaknesses is figuring out pot odds in no limit tournaments.

Curious, if this was the wrong play (which it might of been), what would a better player have done?

[UMTerp]

Well, all the stacks are pretty desperate, since the blinds are so high in relation to the amount of money that's in play. If you were really that sure you were ahead, then raising all-in isn't terrible. I know I mentioned before that calling and raising are pretty much identical options, but I'm taking that back now - you'd want to raise rather than call if you're playing the hand. Not because you think the original raiser will fold, but to shut out the BB. In general though, there were two main problems with calling:

1) Lots of your opponents will only raise with a pair or any ace, and A3 doesn't fare too well against those hands.

2) If a lot of home games, players don't calculate pot odds very well, and you might still be able to steal some blinds with your 1800 chips if you folded this hand and waited til you were first the pot in to push (and with your stack that short, you could do it with any two cards).

Also, if the tournament paid three and the players were going to battle quite often, you could also think about sneaking into third by folding a few hands if cashing was a priority of yours (as opposed to winning).

[frankg]

UMterp, very good points. I forgot to mention this tourney paid out top two, so I wasn't playing for 3rd. I was aiming for 1st, settling for second.

[texasrattlers]

Another reason stack size is important is to determine how much folding equity you have. If you fold this hand and wait for an opportunity to be the aggressor, I think you are better off. You smelled weakness and were right that you had a small advantage. But unless I feel I have a significant edge I like to wait until I am first to act in these late game situations so I get a chance to steal blinds without having to see any board cards. You would have had 2 more opportunities to do this before the BB came around again with at least some folding equity. I think you have more folding equity if other stack sizes are not too much bigger than yours; your all-in in the next hand or two will not pressure a monster stack too much.