ATs from the SB, Something smells funny.

[risen]

PP 5/10
Early Morning (U.s. East Coast) only 30 hands in PT on the villain, and he's done nothing of note this session.


Hero is dealt A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif in the SB

Folded around to the villain in LMP who raises, the CO calls 2 cold, folded to the Hero who calls (?), BB Folds

3 to the flop for 7 SB

[ 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q /images/graemlins/club.gif, 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif ]

It's checked around.

My spidey senses go off. The villain either has
1. An Underpair to the Q and is ready to go home (Most Likely)
2. A flopped monster (Trips, overpair, AQ) (less likely)
3. AK and no clue how to play (least likely)

I decide to tread carefully.

3 players to the turn for 3.5 BB

[ 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q /images/graemlins/club.gif, 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif [ T /images/graemlins/spade.gif ]

Hero checks, Villain bets, CO calls, Hero calls (?)


Now I thought all things considered, the T /images/graemlins/spade.gif was the best card in the deck i could ask for, but the Preflop raiser/flop checker bet into it. Are there monsters creeping out from under the bed? Or did the turn card just make a ragged board look more raggedy?

Thoroughly confused we come to the turn 3 handed for 6.5 BB


[ 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q /images/graemlins/club.gif, 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif, T /images/graemlins/spade.gif, [T /images/graemlins/heart.gif ]

Yesss!, Or maybe, Oh crap! I have no idea.

Hero? . . .

Comments on all streets welcome, how do you proceed?

[ode]

Hmm, I wouldn't call this from SB with one cold caller in between. If no cold caller, I still wouldn't call but might 3-bet, depending on the raiser.

But that's just me..

/ode

[molawn2mo]

"3 to the flop for 7 SB

[ 7 , Q , 6 ]

It's checked around.

My spidey senses go off. The villain either has
1. An Underpair to the Q and is ready to go home (Most Likely)
2. A flopped monster (Trips, overpair, AQ) (less likely)
3. AK and no clue how to play (least likely)

I decide to tread carefully."

Since you suspect a big hand from villain, checking the flop only compounds your problems. Bet out. You will likely reduce the field to 2 and may even take it down there. You can fold to villain's c/r depending upon your read - villain should make CO face 2 bets with almost any holding here. If villain is competent and only calls the flop, you ought be wary.

When you turn your second best possible card (Td, best) and you are at a loss for a play, that is the signal that you may have erred on the prior street.

QQ from villain is the only likely hand that I see that you lose to; more likely he has AQ. That said, cr the river and extract lots of bets.

And, oh yeah, raise or fold preflop.

[sfer]

I'd let this go before the flop. You're in good position and the CO insulates you a bit but I'd prefer more hot, multiway action to coldcall here.

On the river I'd bet and call a raise. You don't want the river checked through, and collecting single bets is better than getting sneaky with a whiffed checkraise. It also insulates you from a 3-bet since I don't think you want to go 3-bets on the river.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
And, oh yeah, raise or fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why even consider 3-betting?

[ QUOTE ]
Since you suspect a big hand from villain, checking the flop only compounds your problems. Bet out. You will likely reduce the field to 2 and may even take it down there. You can fold to villain's c/r depending upon your read - villain should make CO face 2 bets with almost any holding here. If villain is competent and only calls the flop, you ought be wary.


[/ QUOTE ]

You don't have a hand and you bet, out of the blue, into two players? I don't understand the reasoning at all.

[molawn2mo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And, oh yeah, raise or fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why even consider 3-betting?


[ QUOTE ]
Since you suspect a big hand from villain, checking the flop only compounds your problems. Bet out. You will likely reduce the field to 2 and may even take it down there. You can fold to villain's c/r depending upon your read - villain should make CO face 2 bets with almost any holding here. If villain is competent and only calls the flop, you ought be wary.


[/ QUOTE ]

You don't have a hand and you bet, out of the blue, into two players? I don't understand the reasoning at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sfer, you are, of course, correct that it is wrong to 3 bet preflop. I mis-read the situation. Fold is better. Additionally, I mis-read the order of betting and thought Hero was last to act on the flop. I'm such a putz, sometimes. Thanks for calling me on it and I vow to the forum to BE MORE CAREFUL. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[risen]

Not to pile on or anything, but though the Td would rule, it's in my hand, and that's cheating.

On the river, I really couldn't think of a line that wouldn't make me puke in my mouth. I could

1. Check and call the PFR's last shot (Eww weak and it might get checked through)
1a. Check and raise the PFR's last shot (Strong, could take it down without a showdown, but I'm not going to fold to a 3-bet even with puke dribbling down my chin)
2. Lead (ABC and telegraphs my hand unless i'm being put on a stone cold bluff, could fold to a raise but probably wont. Wins me the least bets.)
2a. Lead and 3bet (Mmm, mecha aggro if I wasn't so damn lost)

Forum preference?

(And yes I see how folding PF fixes all of this now, that particular cold call is being eliminated from the repertoire)

[Trix]

Bet and call vs pfr.

Problem with 3betting the river here is that only suited T left for him to raise preflop is clubs and he would surely have bet the river, so he probably has tricky QQ too often to 3bet him.

The other guy you can probably 3bet though. I´m assuming he is loose since he coldcalled pre and you didnt have a read.
Worse trips is a fairly likely hand for him.
I cant really see him beeing ahead at all.

[molawn2mo]

"Not to pile on or anything, but though the Td would rule, it's in my hand, and that's cheating."

It took the cyber-jaws-of-life 45 minutes to extricate my cyber-foot from my cyber-mouth. /images/graemlins/grin.gif