PLO Hand

Qualification (basically a super satellite) for the monthly "big" tourney, 9 pls. qualify. Pot Limit Omaha high, about 130 players start, down to 5 tables (45 players), still within the rebuy period (free T4000 buyin christmas promotion so not many pls. rebuy). I have about T17000 which is one of the bigger stacks on the table.


Blinds are T750-350, 3 limpers, I'm in the SB and complete for T300 with KQs87 (too loose?), BB checks as expected.


Flop comes KKT rainbow (none of my suit). I bet pot for T3750 (good idea?) with my trips, 2nd kicker, UTG calls and has about T7500 left, all others fold. UTG seems like a decent player, as far as I could tell (got to the table just 10 min ago). Turn comes an offsuit 4, there are T11250 in the pot. What is your action here?


results follow


cu


Ignatius

I figured UTG for twopair w/ some str8 draw or maybe a weaker king, as he probably would have raised with AK or tens (btw: what would have been my play in that case?). The offsuit 4 on turn was about as good as I could hope for w/o filling up, so I decided to pop it again. UTG calls all in and turns over KQTx for a flopped boat. No miracle Q to split on the river, and I lost most of my stack and busted out shortly afterwards.


I knew I was in trouble once he called my turn bet, but is there any way I could have gotten away from that hand? Should I have made a smaller bet on the flop or on turn and folded for a reraise? How do you avoid getting trapped in situations like this? And what would have been my play if a scare card like a J would have turned?


Any advise would be highly appreciated!


cu


Ignatius

Once you bet the pot on the flop against a KKT flop and you get called by a reasonable opponent, you KNOW you are dead- you don't have to bet again to figure that out. This is an easy check-and-fold. Also, betting the pot on the flop (what you did with your KQ87) is not necessary against this flop. You will see lots of players doing this and when you ask them why they will tell you: hey, I have to charge my opponents for drawing out, but that's nonsense. They're thinking limit poker; pot-limit poker is something different and pot-limit Omaha is something ENTIRELY different. I don't like your actions on the flop and turn, but the worst thing here was your read on your opponent- you should have known right away you were drawing dead. Had your opponent raised, he might have had AK or TT (and you would have been drawing very slim, in fact too slim for calling his raise). Flat-calling means he is in there with the nuts (KT), probably with some kind of redraw. There are no ifs and buts here- you are done with the hand unless the turn gives you the nuts with the queen.

Thank you for your advise! It's good to get a definite answer on this from a pro, even if I cannot possibly like it ... ;-)


After having done the math, I realized that even against 4 random hands, the odds of a better hand (i.e. AK, TT or KT) being out there are as high as 1:4, so my play was not just bad - I managed to turn flopping trips into a -EV situation, despite standing to win 80% of the times. :-(


I've ordered Bob Ciaffone's book today, as I guess I really have to reevalute my pot limit play, and I'd much prefer not to learn my next lesson the hard way again ...


cu


Ignatius

may be wrong, BUT I would have mucked that hand to begin with.


there are times when I may play a hand with only 3 coordinated cards, but most of the time I want four even if they are smaller than your KQ

I would automatically muck this hand for a complete bet, but in the SB for half a bet I thought I'd give it a shot as I didn't expect the BB to raise. Do you think that is still too loose for (KQ)87?


cu


Ignatius

Ignatius,


It's hard to see getting involved with this

hand, even with your favourable chip position-

I've no objection to a loose call in that posi-

tion now and again, but look what happens once you get called; you don't really know where you

stand.


perfidious

yes it was cheap to get in, but it may cost you in the long run


remember that omaha is a drawing game...that is why you want more than just 2 cards which match up

Jellow,


Agreed; that's precisely my point. In pot-

limit, once that first call has been made, it can be very difficult indeed to get away from the hand. At times, with a decent stack in front of me

facing a short stack, or against the right opponent,I might make that call.It's just a matter of timing.


perfidious