KK hand.. common turn and river situations.. what's my play?

[btspider]

4 tabling to clear the party reload bonus. i'm watching football and have no reads. the tables are all ultra passive compared to what i've been used to at 2/4. i don't like my play here.. so correct me.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="666666">4 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, MP2 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, BB folds, MP2 folds.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls.

my turn aggression is sometimes a bit low, i hate 3-betting here and calling down a cap. if my opponent is betting light, i prefer to let them bet. i think this is probably bad out of position since I cannot ensure 1 bet on the river.

River: (9.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

check-raise the possible counterfeit or light turn raise? call the 3-bet?

Final Pot: 15.25 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 15.25 BB, between Hero and Button.</font>

[Akimka]

Why not check-call river when another 4 falls? You losing not only to slowplayed set, or 44 or two pair with 4 or d-flush... What hand you think will bet to your river check BUT will be worse then yours? S-flush draw will check your check. TPTK shold raise flop badly (he need to ruin flush-draw's odds). Why he haven't raise flop but raise turn?

I pretty sure you against hand with 4 and your check-raise was not reasonable.

[JDErickson]

With no reads I think I just call this down. So stop watching football and give us some damn reads.

[Entity]

Hey spider,

If you really think that 4 helped you, then I'd bet and call a raise, but I don't think I'm c/r'ing here. I'd rather have to invest two bets here at the most.

Rob

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
With no reads I think I just call this down. So stop watching football and give us some damn reads.

[/ QUOTE ]

but that's what i've always done.. so I had to verify that this wasn't the source of my relatively lower turn aggression.

i wanted to try something different.. and i didn't like it /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey spider,

If you really think that 4 helped you, then I'd bet and call a raise, but I don't think I'm c/r'ing here. I'd rather have to invest two bets here at the most.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, i know the river fold question is unfair without a read. is the stop-n-go a compromise to not 3-betting the turn and not wanting to give up a free showdown?

[DeathDonkey]

Agree with the monkey but here's the thing. They have a set like 75% of the time you get raised on this turn, they always do. You still have to call down for the one fool semibluffing his flush draw or one pair crappy kicker, but he just gets the other guys paid off for his foolishness. I never win these kinds of hands at loose passive tables.

-DeathDonkey

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hey spider,

If you really think that 4 helped you, then I'd bet and call a raise, but I don't think I'm c/r'ing here. I'd rather have to invest two bets here at the most.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, i know the river fold question is unfair without a read. is the stop-n-go a compromise to not 3-betting the turn and not wanting to give up a free showdown?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but honestly, I'd rather just call down an unknown here. It's also because I can bet and call a raise for the same price as checkraising, and if I get 3-bet on the c/r, I should probably fold, but this is a bitch of a time to fold KK.

I think that 4 is a good card more often than not here. I wouldn't bet out on another 4.

Rob

[fairness]

only hands for the button that makes sense to me are a slowplayed set or top pair that picked up a flush draw on the turn: Q /images/graemlins/club.gif - another high /images/graemlins/club.gif (ace, jack or ten) i highly doubt he's holding a 4. either you're way behind on the river or way ahead. it's a tough turn decision, i'm curious as to other people's takes on this. i think a 3-bet is in order but i too would hate to call a cap.

[Hack]

I'm curious to know.

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious to know.

[/ QUOTE ]

a turn call is correct. i have outs to two pair, so i cannot just 3-bet and fold to a cap.

a river check-call is likely fine as well. i am entertaining the potential of the bet-call line, but i think its more prudent to just call down.. which is boring but i've been doing it profitably for awhile now. i had to see if there was a better line.

RESULTS:
Villian had T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

semi-bluffing fool.