Absolute newbie question from a loser.

[spindizzy]

Sorry if I come across as a total whiner, but anyway, this is my question.

I have been playing poker with friends for some time, always doing quite good. Recently I signed up for online play and I've lost heavily on Holdem. No big sums, but a lot of hands. I've been smart enough to stay low in wagers.

I took the time to go through my hands from the 22th to today. I've played 174 hands and won only 7. This is one in 25.

I have tried to play reasonably tight. I see the flop about 20% of the times. I'm not an expert by any means, but even if my game is worthless, I can't see it. When I know the odds favor me, I bet big, and usually lose.

Is it possible to have streaks of "bad luck" this intense, or am I doing something fundamentally wrong? Is this beyond hope, and would you tell me to simply stop playing? I like playing, I just don't like losing all the time. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I could provide full hand history if anyone would be interested.

Kind regards, Thomas

[spindizzy]

(Oh. And I'm sorry if we're not supposed to post about things this amateurish. I just didn't really know where to ask and your place seems nice.)

[gamblore99]

hey spindizzy, welcome to the forum. Have a losing streak of 200 hands is very little and common. Players here have had losing streaks in the thousands. But overal if you play good, the money will come. Seeing as your new to this site, and you have a very newbie question, your probably losing not because of bad luck but because you suck. I remember the first time I stumbled on to this website, I had been playing with friends for about 2 years and thought I was a poker god. Right before I actually signed on I had read half of theory of poker, and lost about 300 at 3-6. I thought the 300 was bad luck. A month later, after hanging around here, I couldn't believe I ever considered myself a poker player before. This site will make you a winning player. Also get ed millers book. its really really good.

gamblore

[amulet]

with 174 hands there is no way to tell. even if you had 10,000 hands that is still not that many. the standard deviation is high. however, if you play tight, play your good hands hard, don't call many raises, etc., long term you will be a winner. there are a lot of terrific books. read them. two plus two published a book called small stakes hold 'em (among their many poker books). it is very good, however, it is not the right book for a beginner. i would take a look at it in a bookstore. if you think it is too advanced then there are other two plus two books, but if you think you can grasp most of the concepts then order it here online.

[BottlesOf]

[ QUOTE ]

Is it possible to have streaks of "bad luck" this intense

[/ QUOTE ]

This is nowhere near a word that is close to another word that might mean intense.

[bicyclekick]

174 hands is so minute. I imagine you're 1 tabling so that's 3 hours of nothing...

In reality, your 'streak' is nothing more than a bad start to a day for so many players that happens at least weekly.

Keep your chin up, it'll get better.

[Ryner]

What limits do you play?

[BusterStacks]

174 hands, lets see that's.... the past hour.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
174 hands, lets see that's.... the past hour.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you ever say anything nice? This is a new poster. Cut him some friggin slack.

Did you bother to answer the guy's question in a reasonable way? No.

You contributed nothing besides making some snide comment. I really wish you wouldn't drag my friend Mega Man down in the mud with you all the time. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[gamblore99]

[ QUOTE ]

You contributed nothing besides making some snide comment. I really wish you wouldn't drag my friend Mega Man down in the mud with you all the time. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think the comment was hurtful. But your definitely right. Mega Man wouldn't play that game. He'd be busy kicking ass.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think the comment was hurtful

[/ QUOTE ]

It probably wasn't hurtful, but it didn't contribute anything that hadn't already been said. It was just another way for him to stick in a snide comment.

I usually don't make complaints like this, but buster just seems to be out to get everyone he can. If I'm wrong about that, I apologize.

In fact, I wont call him out for this again. I just had to say it this one time. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[BusterStacks]

Look, AngryCola, the point of my post was that shortterm fluctuations don't matter. You know? But really it goes deeper than that. There is a forum for beginners, and on the website of a publisher of advanced poker books, I consider this a beginner's question. Frankly I dont give a [censored] if you think I'm not being nice enough or not. If you make a stupid post, you get a a reply that you might not like. Shocking I know, but I would expect and hope that you would do the same for me.

How many times do we need to see the same god damn post before someone becomes annoyed by it? Clearly if the said poster had read any number of books that this site publishes, he would have not made the post. You tell me right now how you can entertain these posts and at the same time maintain the same level of good posts... It's not possible.

In closing, I'd like to say that this is a reply that never needed to happen... to a post that never needed to happen. Clearly the poster neglected to use the search button, neglected to put forth any effort whatsoever into poker research, and posted in the wrong forum. I'm sorry you think I'm being a jerk or whatever, but I consider it aversion therapy. That's right, I'm a humanitarian working hard to make a better life for you and if you can't thank me for that, then I dunno what to tell ya.

[Equal]

Hi Spin. Since no one has yet done it (that I saw) let me direct you to the beginner's forum. If you on the list on the left under General Gambling you will see "Beginners". They are always happy to answer your questions.

P.S. Ignore Buster Stacks. He's the 2+2 forums Resident A-Hole.

[spindizzy]

0.5/1, 1/2, PL25. Empirepoker.

Really thanks for all the nice replies guys and girls. I've ordered a bunch of books:

1 "Blackjack Bluebook II: the simplest winning strategies ever published"
Fred Renzey; Paperback; $13.60


1 "Gregorian Strategy for Multiple Deck Blackjack"
Gregory Mannarino; Paperback; $9.71


1 "The Theory of Poker"
David Sklansky; Paperback; $20.96


1 "Hold'Em Poker for Advanced Players (Advance Player)"
David Sklansky; Paperback; $20.97


1 "Fundamentals of Poker"
Mason Malmuth; Paperback; $5.95


1 "Winning Low-Limit Hold'em (2nd Edition)"
Lee Jones; Paperback; $17.46

Are these good choices?

Kindly, T

[spindizzy]

No hard feelings. I know I probably suck, and suck greatly. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[spindizzy]

Thanks Equal!

[spindizzy]

And one more thing, sorry for posting in the wrong forum. If someone can move the thread I'd be happy.

[theghost]

[ QUOTE ]
1 "Blackjack Bluebook II: the simplest winning strategies ever published"
Fred Renzey; Paperback; $13.60


1 "Gregorian Strategy for Multiple Deck Blackjack"
Gregory Mannarino; Paperback; $9.71

[/ QUOTE ]
You can't count in online BJ, but if you play B&M, knock yourself out.


Winning Low Limit Hold'em is a great 1st book, read this first.

Theory of Poker is awesome, read this next.

Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players should be replaced by Small Stakes Hold'em (at least for now).

Fundamentals of poker was probably a waste to buy, considering your other choices.

[Grisgra]

You've having problems with Hold 'em, this is a general Hold 'em forum, not exactly the end of the world you posting your problem here . . .

Like the other guys said, 174 hands is NOTHING. 1000 hands is close to nothing. 10,000 hands, well, now we're getting somewhere, but even good players have a 10-20% chance of losing a little or only breaking even after 10k hands.

If I were you, I'd start with Lee Jones, take it from there. And probably limit yourself (no pun intended) to limit poker -- pot-limit and no-limit are a little trickier, and require different strategeries to some degree. (Though if you've got the bankroll, you're not going to lose much by experimenting at $25PL).

Good luck!

[Greg J]

I have not read responces, but you are probably getting flamed mercilessly. I will tell you this: I have a little over 12K hand in my pokertracker database, and this is not really enough to make definative inferences about (that is the conventional wisdom at least). You, on the other hand have 173 hands. That is NOTHING. Anything can happen in 173 hands. You can go that long without getting playable cards some days.

There is something I call "Rounders syndrome." That is the impression newbies get from watching the movie -- it implies that winners should never really have a losing session. When you are new you obsess over the results of sessions, and this is pretty logical since that is all the expereince you have. When you become more experienced you become more focused on the big -- and important -- picture: long term results. No one -- NO ONE -- wins everyday. You put Doyle Brunson on a low limit table and he will have losing streaks.

That being said, you are likely not a winning player yet. Study up and you will be fine. Post hands, yadda yadda.

FYI: this is more suited to the beginner's forum. Welcoem to the boards.

EDIT: Glad to see no one is flaming this kid. Sometimes people here can be really mean.

[Grisgra]

You must have missed BusterStacks's post /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

[spindizzy]

Oh, that's nothing. I'm used to much worse on the fora I frequent. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Greg J]

I'm not trying to get in the middle of that argument -- but I didn't think busterstacks was flaming him.

[BusterStacks]

I don't flame.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
1 "Gregorian Strategy for Multiple Deck Blackjack"
Gregory Mannarino; Paperback; $9.71


[/ QUOTE ]

Bleh. Do me a favor, when you get this book, throw it in your fireplace. Seriously. I'm not being mean, it's just worthless and full of false information. If you're looking for a good beginner's blackjack book, try Knock-Out blackjack. I forget the authors but it's a great way to learn about blackjack and counting cards.

And just to let you know, it's a hell of a lot easier to beat poker than blackjack. The swings are much greater in blackjack.

Justin A

[spindizzy]

Yep, I know it's hard to win over time in BJ. But, well, it's a game you find in your pub anyway, and I know some basics about card-counting, so I figured, wth, cheap books anyway. I saw some mixed reactions on that particular book and thought that maybe it was just BS, but I wanted to see it for myself. Bluebook should be good, though, right?

Kind regards.