Was this weak-tight?

[horkologep]

This was early in tonight's $5000 Guaranteed on Party. I had just been moved to a new table, so no reads.

Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: I_L_L_I_N_I ( $1530 )
Seat 2: midga624 ( $930 )
Seat 3: rastling ( $950 )
Seat 4: kaiman3 ( $1075 )
Seat 5: ky_mechanic ( $2700 )
Seat 6: horkologep ( $795 )
Seat 7: JonDavid99 ( $600 )
Seat 8: OnItB ( $1175 )
Seat 9: wabbby ( $1005 )
Seat 10: rabbitking ( $990 )
Trny:7372435 Level:2
Blinds (10/20)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to horkologep [ Jc Jh ]
rabbitking folds.
I_L_L_I_N_I folds.
midga624 calls [20].
rastling folds.
kaiman3 calls [20].
ky_mechanic folds.
horkologep calls [20].
JonDavid99 folds.
OnItB calls [10].
wabbby checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5d, 9h, 7s ]
OnItB bets [65].
wabbby folds.
midga624 calls [65].
kaiman3 folds.
horkologep raises [200].
OnItB calls [135].
midga624 calls [135].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Td ]
OnItB bets [345].
midga624 folds.
horkologep folds.
OnItB does not show cards.
OnItB wins 1045 chips

1. Should I have raised preflop? I've been getting creamed lately raising middle pairs preflop on loose tables. The problem is that 3 or 4 people call and the hand doesn't usually hold up unless it hits a set.

2. Fold on the turn? I put him on 2-pair or a straight, although in retrospect the Td isn't all that scary. The only hand it makes a straight for is J8, and I have two of the jacks.

[Lloyd]

It's not weak-tight, just weak.

1) Yes. Absolutely raise pre-flop. Even though it's early in the tournament I'd raise it up to 80 (5xBB). You have a very strong hand and want to get Ax to fold. Even though it ALWAYS seems like overcards come on the flop when we have JJ, you don't necessarily need a set to win. I'd bet that the early limpers had a small or middle pair.

2) Who the heck knows what he has. That's part of why you raise pre-flop. At the very least, you can usually narrow the range of hands to put people on. I doubt if he has a straight. He could have 2 pair with T9. He could have picked up a set with TT. Or he could simply have A9. I do think it's a fold-push decision here. I don't think anyone would fault you for doing either.

[Synth]

[ QUOTE ]
This was early in tonight's $5000 Guaranteed on Party. I had just been moved to a new table, so no reads.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Should I have raised preflop? I've been getting creamed lately raising middle pairs preflop on loose tables. The problem is that 3 or 4 people call and the hand doesn't usually hold up unless it hits a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you where just moved, you're in great position with JJ, and you call because you fear this table to be loose?

This is a must raise, and I agree with Lloyd when he sais "this isn't weak-tight, just weak"

You are letting the blinds in for free, you lose alot of value on your PP, and you don't know where you stand on the flop.

I'm a fan of playing JJ cautiously early in a tournament esspecialy when I'm in EP, but in late position esspcially when I could narrow the feild in position, I always raise.

[Lloyd]

And I wasn't trying to be smug about saying "just weak". Technically, your play had nothing to do with being tight since that relates to the hands you played. If you folded JJ, you would be, obviously, tight.

[horkologep]

Thanks for the comments. Would you guys also raise something like 88 preflop in this situation?

[Lloyd]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the comments. Would you guys also raise something like 88 preflop in this situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not unless I was trying to make a move. I would raise with 88 in MP or LP with maybe one limper. But with a couple of limpers in MP I assume at least one person is going to call me and there's a large chance of overcards on the flop (obviously). So you're basically playing 88 for set value. In that case, you want as many people in the pot as possible.

[mudpuddle]

You definately should have raised preflop the gone all in on that flop. You can't reasonably expect 6/8 to call your raise preflop but you can't allow anyone to draw at that board after the flop if they did call your raise. Sometimes you are just going to get blindsided by some weird calls but you cannot win if you are not aggressive.