Commission Coach Hand # 2 Review

[O Doyle Rules]

I failed to mention in the first post I am featuring hands out of the big blind because I did horrible out of this position, losing - .38BB.
Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (12.66 SB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">CO raises</font>, Button folds, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (9.33 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">CO raises</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

River: (15.33 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP2 checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero folds, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 17.33 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
MP2 has Ks Kc (two pair, kings and eights).
CO has 8h 8d (four of a kind, eights).
Outcome: CO wins 17.33 BB. </font>

[MarkD]

[ QUOTE ]
I failed to mention in the first post I am featuring hands out of the big blind because I did horrible out of this position, losing - .38BB.


[/ QUOTE ]

You realize that by posting your big big you are putting yourself in a -0.5BB disadvantage. You are going to lose from the BB - it's a fact.

I think the rest of the hand played fine. If you are going to fold the place to fold is the flop, but the pot is much too large so you have to play on. Tough situation but that's poker.

Pre-flop I would debate folding but again, you have enough equity with the number of opponents that were going to be seeing the flop. I think it is close though.

[Steve Giufre]

The flop call is horrible. You'll be putting in more than two bets a lot of the time in this spot by the time the smoke clears. Once in while you'll be drawing dead, and some of the time you'll make your hand on the turn and you'll get couterfited on the river.

On the turn you are getting 6 1/2 to 1 and again you dont close the action. It might get three bet and capped for all you know. Even if you did close the action it still wouldnt be enough. I'm not trying to be harsh on you at all, but I would move down in limits until you are ready and confident enough to beat these guys.

[ActionBob]

Fold the flop.

-ActionBob

Edit note: In re-reading the intial post, I realized the preflop raise. I'd probably fold this preflop. Not having done that, then fold the flop.

[slavic]

O Doyle Rules-

This one is a flop fold. I know there is a lot of money in the pot but this is a definite reverse implide odds hand. What you saw on the flop and turn is not atypical on an action flop like this.

[vmacosta]

Only see the flop after you've become a consistent winning player at this limit and then you will never have to wonder about the rest of the hand because your hand would have been safely in the muck after the flop.

[OrangeHeat]

I am not crazy about the preflop call even if there are a gazillion bets in there already.

J9 off against that many opponents needs a miracle flop - most of the time you will get a flop that looks good but is nothing but expensive trouble.

BTW - You have to fold this flop. Calling 2 cold with no spade is very bad - calling with no spade with a possible reraise on your left is very very bad.

GL

Orange

[O'Doyle's Coach]

without looking at any of the previous replies:

Pre-flop the call is borderline. If you knew for sure you would get 6 players in for two bets each, it's an deasy call getting 11-1 with implied odds. The problem is there are two people to act behind you and there could be a 3 bet, which is no fun. This is close, but I probably call as well. I'd definitely call JTo, and muck J8o, I think it's that close. You are not playing for one pair here, but rather the implied odds that come with a straight draw, trips or two pair. I forget the math on flopping two pair or better with two different cards, but I think it's like 28-1, plus you will flop a made straight or profitable straight draw some portion of the time.

The flop calling two is a clear mistake, calling one closing the action is even debateable. calling one with others to act behind you is probably also a mistake.

The turn another clear mistake. with a three-flush your OESD is of course 6 outs at best, not 8...

[Senor Choppy]

Even overlooking the flop action, that is one ugly turn call. I think it might be time to move down if you're peeling in these spots with any consistency, regardless of the coaching situation.

[AviD]

ODoyle:

I don't like the preflop call at all, suited absolutely...unsuited could set you up for some chip spewing when you flop a draw (as you did).

Flop call of 2 cold is ugly on this board. You could already be up against a flush or at the very least a flush draw, so that cuts your chancing of winning when you actually hit your straight from 8 outs to 6 clean ones...of which still may not be good if someone flopped the flush. Fold here getting 7.5:1 or so on a questionable draw and having to call 2 cold with a big field still to act behind you.

Turn is even worse. You now have a paired board and if not against flushes, could be against a boat...calling two cold here is just plain ugly. Same players betting and raising...CO has to have some strong piece of that...hanging in there with just a draw to a very non-nuts hand given the board is a dangerous play and one that can prove quite costly over time.

River brings you nothing, and you have to fold...but could have saved alot more folding earlier. Too costly to go this far with this hand...as I'm sure others have stated.

Now looking at the results, you can see you were drawing dead on the turn and very thin on the flop...already against a better hand and against another with a K high flush draw.

Good hand to learn from the mistakes.

[DrSavage]

It looks like an easy fold on the flop.