Two frequent hands

[Madd]

Hi all,

great forum!
I’m quite new to the poker scene and play 20+2$ SitnGos at the moment. There are two frequent hands I find difficult to play. What is the common game plan with these?

1) You hold JT in the SB and complete. Flop comes T66. Your move against 1, 2, 3, 4 opponents?

Usually I throw out a bet of ½ to ¾ of the pot to test the waters. However after being called or raised I’m not that much more knowledgable about where I stand. Then it depends on my read of the caller(s) if I move on or not

2) You hold Axs on the button. Flop comes with no pair, but two of your suit. First better makes it 150 to go, three callers, you have a stack of 750. Odds + Implied Odds dictate a call. However putting 1/5 of my stack into the pot for a 19% chance of hitting the turn is quite a lot. Same if the turn brings a blank. Shall I call another big bet which in 4 out of 5 times leaves me short stacked?

(I belong to the fraction of players who think it is profitable to play speculative hands early in the tournament – at least at the 10$ and 20$-level. This shell be no issue.)

[adanthar]

1)I would bet big (or checkraise) into 1 or 2 people. Any more than that, and I'd check fold. A raise here is an autofold as any T that raises you probably beats you.

2)Your options are to call or push. The viability of a push strongly depends on the board; A9 on a board of 752 is much better than on a board of KT2. If your outs aren't all clean and a push is guaranteed to be called, you should probably just call and let pot odds determine your turn action. In no case can you fold here.

This is why playing Axs on Party 30+3 and below, with smaller stacks, is very problematic past level 1.

[stillnotking]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi all,

great forum!
I’m quite new to the poker scene and play 20+2$ SitnGos at the moment. There are two frequent hands I find difficult to play. What is the common game plan with these?

1) You hold JT in the SB and complete. Flop comes T66. Your move against 1, 2, 3, 4 opponents?

Usually I throw out a bet of ½ to ¾ of the pot to test the waters. However after being called or raised I’m not that much more knowledgable about where I stand. Then it depends on my read of the caller(s) if I move on or not

[/ QUOTE ]

A check-raise can work very well here, especially if your opponents are of the type (common in $20+$2's) that like to make minimum bets on the flop. Depends on the number of opponents. Against 4 people I will go for a check raise and see what happens; if someone calls it cold, I'm done betting, because that is the average $20 idiot's way of being "clever" with trips.

[ QUOTE ]

2) You hold Axs on the button. Flop comes with no pair, but two of your suit. First better makes it 150 to go, three callers, you have a stack of 750. Odds + Implied Odds dictate a call. However putting 1/5 of my stack into the pot for a 19% chance of hitting the turn is quite a lot. Same if the turn brings a blank. Shall I call another big bet which in 4 out of 5 times leaves me short stacked?

(I belong to the fraction of players who think it is profitable to play speculative hands early in the tournament – at least at the 10$ and 20$-level. This shell be no issue.)

[/ QUOTE ]

A push is not terrible here, as long as you would make the same play with 2 pair or a set (I would). You have a big draw and an overcard and the pot is big enough to take a risk.

[Lucky Clubs]

I could be wrong, but my instinct is that if you're playing to draw one card to the nut flush, you're not just calling a bet 1/5 the size of your stack to see the turn card... you're either going to determine that you're not committed (what are the blinds?), so you have the option of folding and living to play another hand, or you're going to push all the way, with the hope of winning the pot right there. Even if you're called, you have not one, but two chances to hit your flush, giving you closer to a 1 in 3 chance of hitting by the river, rather than making your play based on the 19 percent chance of hitting on the turn.

IMHO, this is an all-or-nothing play. Either you fold to the initial $150 bet, or you push. Not sure of the mathematics behind it, but I don't like a call in that situation, if only for psychological reasons. If you don't hit your card on the turn, you're sitting on $600, and if the original bettor still feels that he's ahead and senses weakness, you can bet he's going to come right out at the field, forcing you to a second tough decision now that you have even more invested in the pot with just one card left to come.

I say put your opponents to the decision. If someone's semi-bluffing with a marginal hand, he's likely to fold. If someone, like you, calls on a draw, you're in good shape. Even if your opponents are ahead, they at least have to ponder whether they want to risk 4x the original bet to withstand a draw (This also depends on whether they're betting very strong hands or hoping to draw to overcards, straights or smaller flushes.

With $450 + preflop bets already in the pot, I wouldn't just call, given your stack size.

Just my two cents. If I'm wrong, please be civil.

[jcm4ccc]

[ QUOTE ]

2) You hold Axs on the button. Flop comes with no pair, but two of your suit. First better makes it 150 to go, three callers, you have a stack of 750. Odds + Implied Odds dictate a call. However putting 1/5 of my stack into the pot for a 19% chance of hitting the turn is quite a lot. Same if the turn brings a blank. Shall I call another big bet which in 4 out of 5 times leaves me short stacked?

(I belong to the fraction of players who think it is profitable to play speculative hands early in the tournament – at least at the 10$ and 20$-level. This shell be no issue.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course it's an issue whether to play speculative hands like this. It is the only issue.

If you are going to play Axs early in the tournament, you have hit almost the perfect flop. Two of your suit, and no pairs. If the flop was three of your suit, then you would get no action. So if you are playing Axs and the flop hits like it did, of course you're going to play it hard. Why else did you limp in with it?

Of course that's the danger with playing speculative hands early in the tournament. You get a flop that you can't get away from and you end up commiting a pile of chips when you don't want to.

So if you are going to play Axs, then go all-in. You want to fold some of the other callers, since that will increase your chances of winning the pot if an Ace hits on the turn or river. If you're uncomfortable doing that, then fold pre-flop.