APU?

[Buckshot]

APU is my acronym for As Per Usual, but it could also mean stinky I suppose.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif. CO posts a blind of $15.
<font color="666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="666666">4 folds</font>, CO (poster) calls, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (6.66 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="CC3333">BB raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, CO folds, BB calls.

Turn: (6.83 BB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero...

Does anyone give the BB another bet?

~stephen

[SoBeDude]

I'm pretty sure raising with KQo in EP is not considered solid play, especially in such a LAGgy game as the Party 15.

But so you raise with it. so be it. But now you get check-raised on the flop. and you 3bet it.

But now you get check-raised again on the turn. And all you have it TP/GK.

Is the BB a moron? is he a Maniac? You didn't put that description in your post, so I'll assume its NOT the case.

Now I know you're stubborn as hell in your play, but at what point do you admit to yourself you're beaten? Only when he flips the cards over at the showdown?

-Scott

[PoBoy321]

Well I don't like raising PF in EP, but maybe that's just me. After the flop, bet it, then after the c/r, cold call it. When he checks to you on the turn, check behind and then maybe call a final bet on the river, depending on whether or not you think that BB could have c/red you with TPBK or 2nd button, something like JJ or TT. After the CR on the turn, though, there's enough money in the pot that you've only gotta have the best hand about 15% of the time for it to be +EV. If you've got enough of a read on this player to think that you might, I'd say make the call.

[James282]

I like your play until the flop three-bet. I woulda raised the turn. I would also call down here.
-James

[sublime]

I like your play until the flop three-bet. I woulda raised the turn

even with the CO behind you? isnt it better to get him out now? sorry if the question is elementary but i usually would 3-bet here also with the player behind me.

[scooby]

Cutoff doesn't really bother me too much in this hand...there's not a lot of cards coming out that will really bother me. I feel like without a read, this is a hand where I'll probably look up the BB just to get an idea of what he's playing with, since I'm having a tough time putting him on a hand other than bottom two or a quickly played set, it's a very benign board. I'm also probably waiting until the turn to raise here.

[Buckshot]

I didn't give a description of the BB because I don't have one to give. Also, I don't have any notes on the CO either. Does that help?

~stephen

ps. As far as being beaten, yes, you'd have to show me the best hand if I have something of showdown value.

[Buckshot]

The other option I considered was calling the flop and raising the turn, but I didn't know how loose/bad the CO was so I opted to try and shut him out. This is my normal default play in this situation.

~stephen

[mike l.]

you played it fine the whole way and you should fold which is what you did im sure. nice hand.

[schroedy]

If you won't let me raise, I'm gonna have to fold. I'm not calling to see an A hit the board and get pummelled by A /images/graemlins/spade.gif5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif or similar.

I am not inclined to fold with possible dead money behind me.

I am playing parts of the rest of the hand a little more slowly, however. Just calling the flop checkraise. I am probably going to get trapped by the turn check, however. I am still calling as in the hands of a not too uncommon player this kind of play can be QJ, QT, or my hand (KQ -- all less likely after the flop 3 bet, I admit) as well as a small set played hard (and who kniows what else in the PP 15/30).

[slicvic]

I hate the PF raise, but other than that, I don't mind your line here. I think you're obligated to call down without a read and with anywhere from 0-8 outs (and occasionally already the best of it!) and the pot is offering you almost 10 to 1. Not a great gamble but probably +EV. But this is why I don't get out of line up front unless I know my opponents very well!

[James282]

Hey Mike, you had your wife call down in a very similar situation /images/graemlins/smile.gif
-James

[surfdoc]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Mike, you had your wife call down in a very similar situation

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this laydown is a whole lot tougher in the Party 15 game. Those phuckers are crazy.

[surfdoc]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure raising with KQo in EP is not considered solid play

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure we need another argument regarding this hand up front, but I am just curious as to your recs here. Are you limping or folding this hand? My thoughts are that it is controversial but seems a bit out of line to ridicule a PFR in this game because of the aggressive nature. This is a much better hand than the average starter in this game and I would rather play it for a raise if I am coming in. Getting Axs, and many other common limping or raising hands out seems to be +EV.

[Barry]

What is everyone's problem with a PF raise with KQo? You're not going to fold it, so you might as well raise with it.

On the turn, when you get checkraised, there are some folks that I would muck to in a heartbeat, but there are many, many that would pull that play on the turn if they picked up a /images/graemlins/heart.gif draw with something like QJ /images/graemlins/heart.gif. So without knowing which side of the coin your opponent plays on, I don't know whether folding the turn or at least calling down is right here.

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
APU

[/ QUOTE ]

Thought that was the Simpsons character name.

Raising preflop is fine. Against an unknown I would call down, too many maniacs/LAGs on Party 15/30. That said, if the player isn't a maniac you can probably fold.

[Buckshot]

[ QUOTE ]
But this is why I don't get out of line up front

[/ QUOTE ]

This means you would limp PF with this hand all the time?

~stephen

[Equal]

[ QUOTE ]
What is everyone's problem with a PF raise with KQo? You're not going to fold it, so you might as well raise with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why I split the difference and just call preflop.

All sarcasm aside, is this not the easiest fold pre-flop? I have LAGgish tendencies but I still fold this unless I am open-raising in LMP.

[Buckshot]

Not meaning to disappoint you but I did not fold this hand. I'm not sure I would ever fold this particular hand to players at Party that I have no notes on.

~stephen

[NabO]

I've just read 1 or 2 replies but the answers seems quite obvious to me. The problem is on which hands can the turn c/r puts you on with a bit of common sense?? AA,KK,QQ,AQ nothing less. there's possibles reads of his hand: 22,33 ( i din't want to cap the flop to have an over pair bet the turn cf "improve your poker")or Q9 and catch a lucky 9, i don't think he can play AQ this way feraing KK or AA.If he still puts on AK his a moron and you don't have to make tough moves against ,just wait.

[Buckshot]

[ QUOTE ]
AA,KK,QQ,AQ nothing less.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's hard to put the BB on AA-QQ since the BB didn't 3-bet PF. At least with AA or KK.

~stephen

[Buckshot]

I called the turn and river which brought the A/images/graemlins/club.gif

The BB had Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif. MHIG

I don't think there is anything wrong with raising first in with KQ, especially when there's a CO poster. I think the hand is too strong to fold. I feel raising is best because I can define my opponent's hands a bit better by raising. If I get 3-bet PF then the range can be significantly narrowed, IMHO. But that's me, YMMV.

~stephen

[NabO]

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AA,KK,QQ,AQ nothing less.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



It's hard to put the BB on AA-QQ since the BB didn't 3-bet PF. At least with AA or KK.

~stephen


i mean which hands the BB think YOU have. I was talking about his hand at this moment.

[James282]

Your analysis is insane because you assume the bb is even considering what Buckshot has.
-James

[Buckshot]

~stephen

[Buckshot]

My poker mentor and I have a saying:

"What are these people thinking?"

We say it aloud and we say it often, especially when we're discussing hands.

~stephen

[SA125]

Seems like he'd play QJ or QT like that if he thought you'd play JJ or TT like that. Call it down.

[vmacosta]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But this is why I don't get out of line up front

[/ QUOTE ]

This means you would limp PF with this hand all the time?

~stephen

[/ QUOTE ]

UTG and UTG+1 I am very careful with this hand. If ten handed I limp at least 75% of the time with folding and raising splitting the remainder. I find that when I raise PF with such a weak hand up front then I am stuck making difficult decisions such as the one you asked us (and calling down is usually the right play in Party 15/30, in my book).

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
My poker mentor and I have a saying:

"What are these people thinking?"

We say it aloud and we say it often, especially when we're discussing hands.

[/ QUOTE ]


stephen-

i told you to keep our sessions private.

~sublime