PDA

View Full Version : Pushing w/ 5's after an EP raise


nightlyraver
11-22-2004, 02:59 PM
Say you are in late position w/ 5's and you only have about 6xBB left. In my specific case, the hand took place at a final table and blinds were high so most people had 12xBB or less. Anyway, UTG+1 raises to about 3.5xBB - about a quarter of his stack I believe - and it's folded to me. I'm short stacked and I'm in MP3. I decided to push since 5's were the best hand I've seen in a while and could not afford another orbit. What does everyone think of this push?

The reason that I ask is for the following reason: I decided to discount the possiblity that the raiser had AA or KK since he likely wanted to extract the max value and stacks were not deep enough for people to really play back at him all that much. Therefore, I put him on AK,AQ,AJs, or QQ. He was not the type that would raise that amount with JJ I felt.

The crux of the question is that since part of the reason that you push is to hope that all fold and you steal the pot. If we both figure it to be a race situation, is there a possibility that UTG+1 will fold his AK (which is what he actually had) when top 5 get paid, there are 9 people left and he is getting about 1.9:1 on his money? If the answer is no, then does that make the push incorrect?

SossMan
11-22-2004, 03:05 PM
Unless I'm reading your post wrong:

You have 6x. He raises to 3.5x, you push.

He needs to call 2.5x and the pot, if everyone else folds is (3.5x + 6x + 1.5x (the blinds)) = 11x

11x / 2.5x = 4.4:1. I can't imagine how he's going to fold there...but unless he has 52o, you are really hoping he makes that mistake.

As far as the push...it's probably marginal depending on the payout structure. The steeper the payouts, the more I like this play.

binions
11-22-2004, 03:13 PM
If you put him on overcards istead of an overpair, which you must if you plan to play the hand, calling makes some sense. The flop will miss him two times out of 3, and your bet could get him to fold if he missed the flop.

He won't fold to your re-raise preflop, and you will have to sweat all 5 cards.

nightlyraver
11-22-2004, 03:17 PM
You are correct - was typing too fast to properly add /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Lurshy
11-22-2004, 03:18 PM
There is no post flop fold as someone is all-in if he pushes preflop

nightlyraver
11-22-2004, 03:19 PM
I don't think I really like calling here since I cannot fold on the flop if an A hits. That will leave me with only about 3xBB left and virtually no chance of recovery.

SossMan
11-22-2004, 03:27 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I really like calling here since I cannot fold on the flop if an A hits. That will leave me with only about 3xBB left and virtually no chance of recovery.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think binions is advocating a stop and go (i.e. getting all the chips in the middle on the flop no matter what). The only reason I don't like that is that you may entice a person behind you to enter the pot too. I prefer the push preflop so someone in LP may fold something like 66 or QJo.

nightlyraver
11-22-2004, 03:32 PM
I think he meant my calling as opposed to the raiser calling my push.