Are Hold Em Players Dumber Than Players Of Other Games? POLL

[grandgnu]

Hola!

In my belief, NL Texas Hold Em' is 7-card stud for dummies. You must pay attention to your opponents actions and betting to pick-up tells, but is not as complex as 7-stud.

In 7-stud you have more information readily available to you, but if you don't use this information, process it and apply it to your hand and that of your opponents, then you will be a loser.

And Omaha is another interesting game where Hold Em players tend to falter, thinking that because they've got three Jacks in the hole that they're golden.

Anyway, I'm sure there will tons of controversy here, but wanted to try it out. What does everyone think? Do players of Texas Hold Em, Omaha or 7-stud tend to be better opponents (i.e. more skilled, knowledgeable about the games, etc.)

[sammy_g]

Limit Omaha in my experience is an easier game than the other two since you usually know exactly where you stand. Simply playing tight before the flop and drawing only to the nuts should make you a winner in loose games. In hold'em, on the other hand, you need to devise creative ways of protecting vulnerable hands (check-raising, waiting until the turn to raise) to be a big winner in loose games. There's a bit more skill there.

Seven-card stud and hold'em both reward skillful play, and very good players have an edge over opponents who just play tight in these games.

Razz and draw poker might be the easiest games to play well.

Edit: By the way, you seem to be asking two questions: which game is the most difficult to master and which game has the worst players? Hold'em has a lot of bad players, but it's also a difficult game to really play well.

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
Limit Omaha in my experience is an easier game than the other two since you usually know exactly where you stand. Simply playing tight before the flop and drawing only to the nuts should make you a winner in loose games. In hold'em, on the other hand, you need to devise creative ways of protecting vulnerable hands (check-raising, waiting until the turn to raise) to be a big winner in loose games. There's a bit more skill there.

Seven-card stud and hold'em both reward skillful play, and very good players have an edge over opponents who just play tight in these games.

Razz and draw poker might be the easiest games to play well.

Edit: By the way, you seem to be asking two questions: which game is the most difficult to master and which game has the worst players? Hold'em has a lot of bad players, but it's also a difficult game to really play well.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I meant was "which players tend to have a better knowledge of the game and are able to adapt to other games?"

I figure 7-stud requires a lot more disicpline and attention from a player. So if you're a good 7-stud player you can pickup Hold Em and Omaha fairly easily since you don't have to pay as much attention (especially in online play in my experience)

Whereas someone who primarily plays Hold Em will have difficulty transitioning to 7-stud because it requires them to work harder and pay more attention. Moving from 7-stud down to Hold Em requires less thought.

So in conclusion, I believe that 7-stud players tend to be more intelligent/knowledgeable about poker in general, and are better able to adapt than the players of other games.

[sammy_g]

[ QUOTE ]
I figure 7-stud requires a lot more disicpline and attention from a player. So if you're a good 7-stud player you can pickup Hold Em and Omaha fairly easily since you don't have to pay as much attention (especially in online play in my experience)

[/ QUOTE ]
Mason has some interesting essays about this. One of the biggest hurdles a 7-stud player has learning hold'em is understanding the effect community cards have. If a card improves my hand, it often improves your hand as well. In 7-stud, the hands develop independently.

There are challenges for players moving in both directions.

[ QUOTE ]
So in conclusion, I believe that 7-stud players tend to be more intelligent/knowledgeable about poker in general, and are better able to adapt than the players of other games.

[/ QUOTE ]
Today most players learn hold'em first. If you see someone in a 7-stud game, often they are a winning hold'em player who's also learned stud. It's more likely this opponent is a better poker player in general.

There are probably more bad hold'em players simply because more people play hold'em.

[Cleveland Guy]

There more Pot- Limit Omaha I play, the better I get at both that and Holdem.

I believe having he 4 cards, and playing for multiple things all the time make you more aware and a more alert player.

[grandgnu]

I don't care for Omaha straight up, but I love fixed or pot limit Omaha hi/lo. Great game.

Same with 7-stud or its hi/lo variant (haven't tried Razz yet). Fixed limit only, haven't tried any other variants there.

Don't care for Limit Hold Em, too easy for people to draw out on you. Enjoy NL Hold Em of course.

Transitioning from Stud to Hold Em for me was a learning experience. Most definetely going into it I didn't have a clue what I was getting into. But I picked it up fairly quickly.

I still think someone moving from Hold Em to 7-stud will have a harder time than someone going in the opposite direction (especially since most of the players aren't that good anyway since they play like Dennis Rodman on Celebrity Poker Showdown)

And I'm not saying good hold em players can't be strong in the other games either. Just that in general Hold Em' players tend to be less skilled than 7-stud players or Omaha.

[turnipmonster]

And Omaha is another interesting game where Hold Em players tend to falter, thinking that because they've got three Jacks in the hole that they're golden.

please. no one that has a clue about anything or knows the rules of the game thinks that. most NL/PL hold 'em players play at least a little PLO.

--turnipmonster

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
And Omaha is another interesting game where Hold Em players tend to falter, thinking that because they've got three Jacks in the hole that they're golden.

please. no one that has a clue about anything or knows the rules of the game thinks that. most NL/PL hold 'em players play at least a little PLO.

--turnipmonster

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not talking about the people who visit these forums who are in the least attempting to learn and improve their game.

I'm talking about the Hold Em players who primarily get their education from watching Celebrity Poker Showdown on Bravo and then sit down at an Omaha table, get dealt Quads and think they can use all four cards. *smirk*

[sfer]

30 second of my life...poof.

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
30 second of my life...poof.

[/ QUOTE ]
"I just got home from work"
-an IM from sfer last week at 1:30 pm

God forbid 30 seconds of your life be used inefficiently /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[turnipmonster]

that usually means an extremely long day, not a short one.

--turnipmonster

[sfer]

When you reach my age, or at least an age where you don't contemplate stacking your freezer full of your favorite sandwiches, you'll understand.