Three ugly spots...PP 5/10

[DrGutshot]

In the middle of the longest downswing I have ever experienced....just doing some hand checkups.

Your actions?

Hand 1)
SB - earlier he bet BPnK into me (PF raiser), he hit his 5 outer on the turn and bet out again, I called him down. In other hands where he bet into the raiser, he just called down and lost.
No read on Button

Preflop:
DrG is dealt Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gifJ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif in the BB

Button open raises, SB calls, DrG Calls.

Flop: Q /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

SB Bets, DrG Raises, Button 3bets, SB calls, DrG Calls

Turn: T /images/graemlins/club.gif

SB Bets (damn him because I know button is going to raise again but I can't fold now), DrG Calls, Button Raises, SB Calls, DrG Calls.

River: 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

SB Bets, DrG...?

thoughts?

Hand 2)
No reads
DrG Dealt KK on button.

DrG Open raises, BB Calls

Flop: 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gifA /images/graemlins/diamond.gif5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

BB checks, DrG Bets, BB Raises, DrG...
Plan of action?

Hand 3)
No read
DrG has A /images/graemlins/club.gifQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif
UTG Folds, MP Raises, DrG 3bets, folded to MP who calls

Flop: 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif5 /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/heart.gif
MP Bets, DrG Raises, MP 3bets, DrG Calls

Turn: 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif
MP Bets, DrG Folds

Standard?

[imitation]

Hand 1: I think you should fold on the turn.

Hand 2: I will call down.

Hand 3: Yeh I think it has to be, though I'd be treading cautiously if a Q hit on the turn anyway, less so if it's A, but I'd still call the flop 3bet.

[Scotch78]

Hand 1:

You may have as many as 13 outs here, no way do I fold this.

Hand 2:

Suits are important here, but I probably call it down regardless. If you have the K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, there's no question.

Hand 3:

When he bets into you on the turn, I'd put him on a PP, AT or TT, maybe AK. Many of those hands leave you less than the full six outs. Even with an average of 5 outs, which I think is somewhat generous, you'd need implied odds to justify continuing, but sometimes you'll be improving to a second best hand and it'll be hard to tell when.

Scott

[imitation]

In hand 1, I think your outs are so often tainted and with the knowledge that button will probably raise again makes me want to dump it on the turn. Your Q outs might be bad, any J gives any K or 8 a straight, even if you make the straight its not to the nuts. I don't feel like you have enough of a hand after the flop 3-bet from a sane opponent, to continue.

Note: I dropped 100BB today and I've been reading Middle Limit Holdem /images/graemlins/frown.gif my W$WSF was 25% for todays 1k hands.

[spydog]

[ QUOTE ]
Note: I dropped 100BB today and I've been reading Middle Limit Holdem /images/graemlins/frown.gif my W$WSF was 25% for todays 1k hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

It sounds like you are really struggling. I feel your pain. I felt like my SH game was getting stale, so I decided to take a break from it and play 3/6 full ring. It's actually been quite refreshing as I hadn't played full tables for a few months. I felt I was just trying to overpower the 6-max games and playing full tables has forced me to scale back on my aggression and pick my spots. I think this will help when I return to 6-max. Maybe you can benefit from a change of pace???

[imitation]

I'm planning on spending the next couple of days doing some 1/2 bonus whoring that I was going to skip because I'd planned on making zillions of dollars playing 5/10 this month and also learning NL playing the $25NL at party because my regular home game seems to be pushing more and more for NL. I might also try a little stud and omaha-hi. But I still want to make this game my home. Today was the first day where emotionally it hit me over this swing, so far I'd been fairly ok with it knowing alot have been through worse, but I was struggling by the end of the session. Just went to the gym which also always makes me feel a whole lot better and that or a run is usually how I split up my sessions during the day.

[imported_stealthcow]

hand 1: lay it down. the way i see it (and i dont really know the opponents) i think you're behind on the flop and only can call on teh turn because of the straight draw. if you think you might be ahead on the flop(based on teh opponents), then you should've raised on the turn. but by calling you should fold as you didn't hit the hand

hand 2. i'll call here, see what happens on the turn. if no diamond falls and bet into again i'll consider foldign but this depends a lot on the opponent

hand 3: a standard laydown ( but one i'm questioning a lot also )

good luck turning it around

[DrGutshot]

In Hand 2 -

what do you think of 3betting/betting the turn/checking the river versus calling down?

-DrG

[aslowjoe]

hand 1 I believe that you have the pot equity to call. With out counting you only need about 30% chance of winning to continue. The river I would fold.

Hand 2 Reraise. If he capped you and then lead the turn. Then I would fold. If he checked I would bet. If he was still around I would check the river unimproved.

Hand 3 agreed.

[Your Mom]

Folding the turn is just awful in my opinion on hand one. This pot is huge by now, I'd raise the turn.

[DrGutshot]

Your Mom and stealthcow - what do you hope to accomplish by raising the turn in hand 2? Button is not folding an overpair, and SB may have just hit 2 pair.

What do you put them on to make this worthwhile, and do they have those hands often enough to justify a raise?

-DrG

[Ian J]

[ QUOTE ]
In Hand 2 -

what do you think of 3betting/betting the turn/checking the river versus calling down?

-DrG

[/ QUOTE ]

If you held the K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, I much prefer this line. Without it, I still prefer this line, but a bit less.

[jfresh]

[ QUOTE ]
In hand 1, I think your outs are so often tainted and with the knowledge that button will probably raise again makes me want to dump it on the turn. Your Q outs might be bad, any J gives any K or 8 a straight, even if you make the straight its not to the nuts. I don't feel like you have enough of a hand after the flop 3-bet from a sane opponent, to continue.

Note: I dropped 100BB today and I've been reading Middle Limit Holdem /images/graemlins/frown.gif my W$WSF was 25% for todays 1k hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think his straight draw is live... i don't think anyone is in there with AJ (if a K comes) or KJ (if an 8 comes).

i'd probably fold on the river though.

[Your Mom]

I think the SB has already shown our hero his willingness to continue betting each street without much of a hand so I'm not worrying about him. Button could have a big draw or a similar hand to our hero. You may knock out a better hand. Even if you don't, I doubt the Button is 3 betting with anything less than top 2 or a set. Probably he will call, so you really aren't losing anything by doing the raising yourself plus you may get the benefit of knocking him out.

Either way, calling is much better than folding because the pot is way too big to worry about your outs not being clean.

[DrGutshot]

1st hand I folded, button thought a while and called with AK for ace high, SB took it down with Q2o, nothing like laying down the winner for 1 on the river...
Still not sure if this is a river call.

2nd hand I 3bet and SB folded, I think the 3bet/bet turn/check river is the best line here.

3rd hand after reviewing it that seems perfectly standard to me, but he showed J9o and took it down with an OESD :\

-DrG

[kiddo]

1 hand

There is something strange about SBs stop and go, its like when next street isnt scary he bets again. I would think about calling river 2. (not sure why AK raised turn and then called river, a good example of not letting go of your overcards)

[tempest7178]

Question, in Hand #1, does the Button know that the SB is insane?

[Grisgra]

Ugh. Hand #1 is causing ME pain, so I can just imagine how you felt. No way for you to know that it wouldn't get raised again. There were about 14BB in there at that point, so calling for one bet would be fine, but as you think it's probably going to be for two bets, I can see folding here. I would have. And I'd have your ulcer /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Too bad you didn't have a read on the button yet. What a yahoo.

[DrGutshot]

[ QUOTE ]
Question, in Hand #1, does the Button know that the SB is insane?

[/ QUOTE ]

very good question - I wish I had the answer. I normally assume the players aren't obervant at all. Also, the SB was very dumb, but not grossly out of line.

-DrG

[Your Mom]

Having to fold on the river to 1 bet with another player to act is exactly why I raise the turn.

[Grisgra]

From now on, I listen to Mom /images/graemlins/grin.gif.