Rounders Hand....this would never happen.

[youngin20]

First hand of the second HU session in Rounders. Blinds 25/50. Mike OTB with KK. Raises to 1k? This is an ENORMOUS OVERBET, and no player would make it. (I dont think) Then the other guy Re-raises 5x the original raise and mike pushes all in. The stacks are way too deep for this to happen. Does this infuriate anyone else?

[cold_cash]

I'm livid.

[bernie]

Once you play enough you'll realize that anything can happen.

Infuriate? C'mon. Get over it.

b

[KJT]

Maybe it's unrealistic, but it's a movie. The point was for Mike to go all in and for the viewer to think, "What balls!" The scene accomplishes that.

[A_C_Slater]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe it's unrealistic, but it's a movie. The point was for Mike to go all in and for the viewer to think, "What balls!" The scene accomplishes that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed. What cajones going all in with KK heads up.

[dealer_toe]

Besides that, look into the movie a lot more, you're not going to be pleased. Most big time pros think its a joke of a poker movie because of its flaws. Jason Lester was quoted on how crummy a movie it was.

[gibs]

If movies were exactly like real life they would be boring. Just think about what a poker movie would be like that actually depicted what being a professional poker player was really like. Basically it would be Kinish (sp?) grinding it out on his leather ass the whole movie, impressing us by folding JJ preflop when a very tight player raised from early position. Point is, movies are made to make money and to do that you usually have to throw in some things that wouldn't happen in real life to make it more exciting for us to watch.

[rgreenm90]

Yeah, you don't like that hand, how about the last one? After KGB has decided that the river ace doesn't help McD (who he put on a busted straight draw) he goes all-in. This is pretty much patently ridiculous because he's positive he will win a showdown against a queen high or he could just bet the minimum and force McD out, but he goes all-in. It's sort of dumb, but still a cool movie. Not a poker instructional video, I might add.

[youngin20]

Understood, but really, this was a movie that I really enjoyed for quite some time. until i really began to understand poker that is. It introduced me to Poker, and I kinda wish it would be true to the game. THANKS FOR RUINING MY LIKE (jk)

[PoBoy321]

Well, let me preface this by saying regardless of its poker flaws, I think Rounders is an awesome movie, but just look at the first hand where Mike goes bust. A) He's playing A9 out of position and B) he's somehow able to get a read on Teddy KGB (flush draw) before he makes any type of bet. I mean, great movie all in all, but yeah, after I started playing poker and learning the game, I was like "wait, he's actually not that good." /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, you don't like that hand, how about the last one? After KGB has decided that the river ace doesn't help McD (who he put on a busted straight draw) he goes all-in. This is pretty much patently ridiculous because he's positive he will win a showdown against a queen high or he could just bet the minimum and force McD out, but he goes all-in. It's sort of dumb, but still a cool movie. Not a poker instructional video, I might add.


[/ QUOTE ]

A poker instructional video is also very unrealistic as to how most play the game. I've seen the types of plays they showed quite a bit. Right or wrong, those plays happen. Do you really expect a movie to show only good, perfect play? Hell, the WPT doesn't even show you that.

KGB was also heavily tilted at that point. Which also happens. I don't see it as ridiculous, but possible.

b

[pfkaok]

[ QUOTE ]
A) He's playing A9 out of position and B) he's somehow able to get a read on Teddy KGB (flush draw) before he makes any type of bet

[/ QUOTE ]

A) he's on the button with A9s

B) He puts him on the flush draw after KGB calls his overbet on the flop...not a typical read, but at this point mike is very overconfident, and displays a typical FPS trait, by making a rigid read early in the hand.

[SinCityGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
Does this infuriate anyone else?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not as much as hearing the explosions when a Klingon photon torpedo hits the Enterprise.

THERE'S NO NOISE IN OUTER SPACE!!!

[Alobar]

Lets not start on star trek, you could rip those apart worse than rounders /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does this infuriate anyone else?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not as much as hearing the explosions when a Klingon photon torpedo hits the Enterprise.

THERE'S NO NOISE IN OUTER SPACE!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoa, I did not know that.

Could you explain to me like a third grader how the no noise thing works?

[maryfield48]

Sound waves vibrate the molecules in the air. No air no molecules no sound.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
Sound waves vibrate the molecules in the air. No air no molecules no sound.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok so the earth's atmosphere is made up of like hydrogen, nitrogen, and CO2 and stuff. so space contains absolutely nothing at all?

[fsuplayer]

what kind of dog is that in your avatar?

I just got a puppy and it looks very similar.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sound waves vibrate the molecules in the air. No air no molecules no sound.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok so the earth's atmosphere is made up of like hydrogen, nitrogen, and CO2 and stuff. so space contains absolutely nothing at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sound waves have to travel throgh some sort of median (air, water, something). Space for the most part is just one giant vacuum.

[Alobar]

she is a lab mix. aint she cute?? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

http://onfinite.com/libraries/173417/ba0.jpg

[TonyBlair]

Do you think anyone has ever played poker in space? I've played it on a 'plane but that doesn't really qualify.

Has anyone seen Mel Gibson's Maverick? Back the [censored] off Rounders and start there.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]


Has anyone seen Mel Gibson's Maverick? Back the [censored] off Rounders and start there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, I love the ending of that movie, when he "Cuts" to the Ace........HE WAS DEALT THAT [censored] CARD, HE DIDNT DO [censored] BUT TURN IT OVER!!!!!! It would have made much more sense if they told him he could take a new card from the deck or something, and then he cut the deck to that card.

I actually like the movie tho, but I get a big kick out of the poker scenes. When I get tired of answering stupid poker questions people always ask me, I tell them its alot like the movie "maverick", especially the scene with jodie foster holding her breath. Sometimes for kicks when playing penny ante poker with my friends (who don't play much poker) and win the hand and take down the pot, with some crummy small pair, they ask how I knew I had them beat. And I tell them stupid [censored] like that they blinked 3 times, or moved their left eyebrow. Heh.

[TonyBlair]

And that smug cockend who came in third. "Two small pair - eights and eights." You lose. Three handed, to a straight flush and a royal flush and he doesn't even think to question the integrity of the game. That's even dumber than letting the rail see his hand before he bets.

[fsuplayer]

she is a lab mix. aint she cute??

absolutely. looks much more like my dog in the avatar than the big pic, but a great looking dog nonetheless!

[David04]

I'm still trying to figure out how you win one Big Bet an hour playing No Limit /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/tongue.gif /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[EStreet20]

In the movie, I got the impression it was the first time he took his shot at no limit because he talks about people knowing him as "small time". Plus, about the KK hand, who knows how much you'd push if you were playing to make 10 grand before morning to pay off a debt your life depended on. As we all know, some of the poker in the movie is off, but I think the big betting was for dramatic effect, plus Mike talks about Doyle's philosophy of "putting your opponent to a decision for all his chips" in NL which that hand serves to illustrate when he bets big and KGB reraises.

[Kaz The Original]

What I'd really like to know is what's up with that scene with Jackie Chan. Are they playig limit? Why does jackie fold before the flop getting 9:1? Help!

[Xelent]

It is actually on the flop and I believe he was playing some pro named Johny Chan, not the incredible poker talents of Jackie Chan. No way he could bluff Jackie.

[Ritter]

I've got a bigger problem with the fact that Mike's supposed to have this supernatural ability to read people's cards by the way they twitch their eyelashes, but he's apparantly shocked when his girlfriend turns out to be a twit and his best friend's a scumbag.

If you can't carry what you learn at the poker table into your life, don't bother learning - it's part of your meta-game edge /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[EStreet20]

That hand wasn't pre flop, Mike never says it but if you watch the scene you see cards face up on the table. I couldn't figure that out either for a while.

[MicroBob]

I'm in a somewhat interesting situation.

I saw Rounders (and enjoyed it) a few times before having any clue how to play poker.
I have not seen Rounders since I learned how to play (and have become a winning player).

When they watch the video and she says of Johnny Chan "flops the nut straight and has the patience to wait it out" (or something like that) I had NO IDEA what she means because I don't know what a flop or a nut is.
But they make it clear that it's the most amazing thing they've ever seen and Mike thinks he is good enough to do that.

I really didn't know the specifics of what was happening in the heads-up match with Teddy. But they made it pretty obvious that Mike made some gutsy plays and the drama and importance was not lost on me.


Even with my lack of knowledge of poker....when Mike walks into the office and all the profs are playing stud and he reads everyone's hand at a glance I was saying "Ummmmm.....Yeah Right!!"


I thought it was a really good movie.....but I'll be interested to see what my thoughts on it are now that I know a little bit about poker.


I suspect the issues you guys have with Rounders are similar to the issues I (and much of the chess community) have with the movie Searching For bobby Fischer.
There is some really unrealistic stuff going on in there.
For those who don't know....the movie is NOT a biography of Bobby Fischer. It is the (mostly) true story of young chess prodigy Joshua Waitzkin and a look into competitive kids' chess.
The final game is especially painful to watch with the little ESP conversation Josh has in his head Ben Kingsley....and when they hustle through all the moves and they somehow don't have any scoresheets.

Same goes for the John Turturro movie The Luzshin Defense. Turturro's performance in that film was terrific....but some of the chess situations (particularly the ending when his GF plays the moves for him based on his notes) are just silly.


I don't think it would be THAT difficult to create a dramatic poker or chess film that doesn't bend the rules THAT much.
It will be kind of interesting to see what those Rounders guys do with the ESPN-series "Tilt" when that comes out. but I have a feeling that it is going to be pretty ridiculous on MANY levels.

[TonyBlair]

That reminds me. This one confused me too.
They were playing limit. It was preflop.
Do top limit players really make these plays or was it just for the film? I realise Mike was meant to be playing very tight but this just seems to be ridiculous.

[TonyBlair]

Same with Rocky.

[SinCityGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
Same with Rocky.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell me about it.

Rocky, an over-the-hill journeyman fighter, gets a chance to fight for the world championship.

Two films later, he has a teenage son, he's STILL fighting, he's a world champion, and now he has world class talent. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[MicroBob]

I thought the first Rocky was pretty decent actually. The fact that he lost the fight actually helps the plausibility.

Rocky 2 didn't completely suck but was still kinda silly.

3, 4 and 5 couldn't have been more ridiculous.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought the first Rocky was pretty decent actually. The fact that he lost the fight actually helps the plausibility.

Rocky 2 didn't completely suck but was still kinda silly.

3, 4 and 5 couldn't have been more ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

rocky was a good movie, but you will NEVER NEVER NEVER see a real boxing match even come close to what they depict. No one could take the punishment they dish to each other, its complete and total movie BS

Sadly tho, the state of heavyweight proffesional boxing is such that an over the hill run down figheter could still become world champion.

[gibs]

If you're refering to what Mike says in the movie, I'm pretty sure he says the goal is to win one big pot an hour.

[gibs]

[ QUOTE ]
In the movie, I got the impression it was the first time he took his shot at no limit because he talks about people knowing him as "small time".

[/ QUOTE ]
I think he's refering to the fact that he'd always played in smaller games before, and this was the first time that he took his shot at the big money game.

[WEASEL45]

he says bet

[gibs]

My bad.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe it's unrealistic, but it's a movie. The point was for Mike to go all in and for the viewer to think, "What balls!" The scene accomplishes that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed. What cajones going all in with KK heads up.

[/ QUOTE ]


The best part of it was they made it out to be a difficult decision. "He's representing Aces, the best hand."

Oh sure he could lay it down, but he doesn't believe that KGB has the only hand in the world that can be ahead of him. What amazing stones he has! /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[gamblore99]

Rounders is the best thing ever to happen to poker. The reason me and all my friends first got into it was because of it. I think a very large part of the recent poker explosion is in part by rounders. If there is a movie that should be trashed, its maverick.

gamblore

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
Rounders is the best thing ever to happen to poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Rah]

I think most of you guys are complaining about small things which could be easily explained. There is one thing that bothers me though, it's when Mike loses his stack in the beginning. He moves allin and says "I don't think you have the spades". Obviously he wants KGB to call with his spades. No sane person (err... expert poker player) would go allin with a hand that could be beaten by a flush, so he is basically screaming "I can beat a flush!". Mike is giving his boat away by saying those words.

I think it's lame to complain about the movie though, since it's the - hands down - most accurate movie about poker made. I don't even think a more accurate movie could be made (i.e. Knish folding and folding and...) - it wouldn't make any money.

[PoBoy321]

How DARE you badmouth Rocky! lol Don't you know that Rocky single handedly broke up the A-team, ended communism, and beat the [censored] out of Don King? It was amazing.

[PoBoy321]

Eh, he's got a point. If it weren't for rounders, most of the people playing would actually know how.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's lame to complain about the movie though, since it's the - hands down - most accurate movie about poker made.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you would find a lot of people that would dispute that assesment. It's by no means the best poker movie ever made. It might be the best in recent times, but not even close to the greatest of all time.

By the way, I wasn't really complaining about it. I just thought that part of the movie was kind of funny. /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[TimmyJames]

and don't forget there is a history between these guys

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
Eh, he's got a point. If it weren't for rounders, most of the people playing would actually know how.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, they wouldn't.

[jdl22]

While on the subject of movies that aren't accurate, anybody else watch A Beautiful Mind and get infuriated that they messed up the concept of Nash Equilibrium? Unbelievable that the movie is about a mathematician that wins the nobel prize in economics because of his solution concept later referred to as Nash Equilibrium and they can't even get the freaking thing down.

[MicroBob]

I thought Beautiful Mind was an awful film and I thought Crowe's performance was pretty terrible.
Ron Howard and the whole gang seemed awfully proud of themselves though.


I thought Turturro's performance as a similar character (the troubled whacko-genius) in Luzhin defense was much better than Crowe's.

[lil feller]

maybe KGB had less then a busted straight draw?

[phixxx]

I suppose you didn't notice the glaring tells that Mike was giving off. If he had a gutshot with an overcard, or something to that extend do you think he'd announce to KGB that he was gambling? I thought KGB was better than that, and could see directly through this clear act.

But who cares? It's a movie, and it's supposed to be fun. Not everything has to be serious you nits.

[Rah]

Nash equilibrium... ehmm is that the oligopolistic, prisoner's dilemma type of equilibrium?

[nuclear500]

I'm pretty sure just before that session he said "double the blinds?" and KGB agreed - so double the blinds is 25/50?

I don't know what the blinds were, but somehow 25/50 doesn't seem right considering it was a 20k stack vs a 20k stack - thats 400BB.

[youngin20]

He says double the blinds after he busts teddy for 10k. This is the first hand of the 10k matchup

[sammy_g]

[ QUOTE ]
I suspect the issues you guys have with Rounders are similar to the issues I (and much of the chess community) have with the movie Searching For bobby Fischer. There is some really unrealistic stuff going on in there.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's there, Josh! THIRTY-SEVEN MOVES BUT IT'S THERE JOSH!!!

[ QUOTE ]
....and when they hustle through all the moves and they somehow don't have any scoresheets.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you have less than 5 minutes left on your clock, you don't have to keep score.

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
If you have less than 5 minutes left on your clock, you don't have to keep score.

[/ QUOTE ]


Been there. Done that. MANY MANY times LOL!!

It's been awhile since I've seen it all the way through but I think they don't have score-sheets at all for the whole game. You see some score-sheets in the first tourney he plays in....but in later games they're just banging the clocks (really hard too).

Also, one would normally assume it's a swiss-format tourney so the whole bit about theirs being the only game taking place 'for the whole championship' is probably a bit flawed too.....but I guess some tourney-formats would allow for something like this.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
Lol, I love the ending of that movie, when he "Cuts" to the Ace........HE WAS DEALT THAT [censored] CARD, HE DIDNT DO [censored] BUT TURN IT OVER!!!!!! It would have made much more sense if they told him he could take a new card from the deck or something, and then he cut the deck to that card.

[/ QUOTE ]

Clearly you missed the point. He was dealt some other card and turned it into an Ace by magic. Sheesh.

Justin A

[Dominic]

Guys? It's a movie. It doesn't have to be perfectly lifelike and realistic to be entertaining.

Cops don't really jump off roofs with potential suicides like Mel Gibson does in "Lethal Weapon."

Mobsters aren't really romantic, misunderstood figures, like in "The Godfather."

Steve McQueen couldn't really make that jump on his motercycle in "The Great Escape."

But people DO sometimes make overbets in poker. Happens all the time.

So there.

/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
maybe KGB had less then a busted straight draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly, he was playing Mike's cards, not his own. If you look closely when he starts to go irate, he accidentally flips his cards over and he has rags.

Justin A

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know what the blinds were, but somehow 25/50 doesn't seem right considering it was a 20k stack vs a 20k stack - thats 400BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Once they both had 20k, they made the blinds 50/100, so it was still 200BB.

Justin A

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
But people DO sometimes make overbets in poker. Happens all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. Although in their defense he opens for 20x the big blind in the first hand of a heads up match with KK. Probably not too smart.

My favorite from the movie is that he bluffs Chan out of one hand when he's been folding for an hour and somehow this means he's the greatest. And K'nish nods his head in agreement.

Justin A

[StraitRazor]

Any chance you might share with us the best of all time then?

The KK all in hand... yeah, I get it... but KGB does say "Very Ag-gre-ess-ive" so maybe he was also surprised with the overbet.

The hands in the movie are for people who don't know poker. Of course we were going to go see it. Did you need to see KGB's aces to know he had the pot won?

Imagine how great that movie would be if:
a) he'd won that first hand.
b) he'd lost with the KK.
c) he got hit by a truck while driving his route and it hospitalised him.

I'm writing a poker movie. It's about online poker. I'll be shooting it whenever I forget to turn off my webcam.

[Gamblor]

Let's assume Teddy has at least an Ace with his reraise.

If Mike busts, he has no money with which to pay Teddy and Gramma back.

This means he will likely be killed.

Would you put your life on the line on a 75ish to 25ish shot?

[Gamblor]

I surmise it was on the river.

Mike puts Chan on a pure bluff, and Chan does the same. Each is trying to outplay the other. Finally Chan gives credit to Mike for some kind of hand and realizes his 9-high or whatever is no good.

[A_C_Slater]

[ QUOTE ]
Let's assume Teddy has at least an Ace with his reraise.

If Mike busts, he has no money with which to pay Teddy and Gramma back.

This means he will likely be killed.

Would you put your life on the line on a 75ish to 25ish shot?

[/ QUOTE ]

And thus Mike breaks the number one rule of gambling.

Never play on scared money. How can you play optimally when you know you will die if you make a mistake or even get outdrawn on. If my life was on the line I would be sweating bullets even after I got all my money in pre flop with AA against 72o. You're gonna die 1 out of 10 times!

I don't think they woulda killed him though. Dead men don't pay debts. They would just probably force him to grind it out for a week straight. Then kill him.

[Freakin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Let's assume Teddy has at least an Ace with his reraise.

If Mike busts, he has no money with which to pay Teddy and Gramma back.

This means he will likely be killed.

Would you put your life on the line on a 75ish to 25ish shot?

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you play optimally when you know you will die if you make a mistake or even get outdrawn on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that just made my night. So are you telling me you've never put your life on the line when you play poker? Good grief son, learn how to gamb00l!!!

Freakin

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