Early Tournie Question

Playing a $3000 tournie... $150k to the winner, 170 runners. Everyone has $10000 in tournie chips. Levels are 1 hour long.


Third hand of the tournie, blinds are 25-50, first position player limps, I am in second position and find KK, I raise to 350 to play. 4 callers! back to the limper who moves allin. I know absolutely nothing of his play.


What should I do?


Cheers,


Keith

since you know nothing of his play i would assign him the title of phil hellmuth clone until you determined otherwise. there are a couple of motives for his all-in raise here, one being he is an idiot trying to double up early, but remember we don't know him so we'll say he isn't an idiot as that could be an expensive assumption. second he has a good hand and is simply a very aggressive player, you may or may not have him beat here as he likely has a group 1 hand here. third he is a very tight player who plays only extremely good hands (read AA) early in the tourney. this is going to be a LONG tourney with hour long levels, and there will undoubtly be better times to get your money in and you are definitely not pot stuck here. curse your bad luck and fold your cowboys and use this hand to learn about your opposition. it's my rule in no-limit hold'em tourneys when someone makes an all-in bet early, when in doubt fold, when not in doubt often fold anyway.

Keith,


I would fold for a few reasons. You know nothing about your opponent. Secondly, with your chip position it is too early to jepordize your stack, and don't forget that the pace of this tournament is slow.


Your opponent is making the classic limp in with AA. What else could he have? Maybe AK, and that could be why he's putting in the whole stack. But, it would be correct for your opponent to make this play with AA. He would rather play it heads up against the first raiser that comes in, and the pot is big enough to pick up. If you were him, wouldn't you be satisfied with just picking up the pot with a pair of aces preflop? If I had AA, I would do the same thing in this situation if I was your opponent. Furthermore, he's not worried that you may call.

Fold. Several reasons:


1. You will only release T350 that you put into the pot by raising, which is piddly relative to the T9650 you have left.


2. You are beat. The limp UTG reeks of AA, so you're pretty much looking to crack his Aces if you call.


3. It's not fun playing one hand in a $3,000 tournament.


Easy fold, right?

Your first two reasons are valid but I don't think (3) is. If you are not prepared to do what a man's gotta do on hand 3 or even hand 1, then you are playing too high and should not have entered.


In general, it is a tough spot to be in, but you just have to use your judgement as best you can. Look hard for a tell and imply what you can from your opponent's general appearance and demeanour.


If for example, with the information you have, you estimate that your opponent is 40% likely to have Aces and 60% likely to have something else, then you call.


Andy.

I did fold eventually.


Having no information about the guys play was my major reason for folding.


I asked the best player I know (in fact probably the best player any of us know).. and he said it was a definite call. One of main factors was the high number of callers of my initial raise which indicated some aces might well be dead. Also, he said someone would have to prove to him by their play they were capable of making this play with aces. Guilty until proved innocent.


Two hours into the tournie the guy made exactly the same play. This time he walked into AA. His hand? 89clubs!


At the bar the next day, I bought the guy a beer and asked him what he had... he said JJ.


C'est le vie.


Cheers,


Keith

The limp, then all-in raise is the typical AA trap play, but I wonder about all these other limpers. I would have to put at least one of them on an ace, allowing then, for only 3 possible ways for the original limper to have AA.


Having no knowledge of his play, I'd have to go with my gut instincts which are that most players are not in the top 5% and many, many players make this kind of play with hands other than AA. I would call, but then, I am more aggresive than most. I play to win, and do so often. But I also get knocked out early becasue of that aggresive play. But under the circumstances, I can't imagine that you are dominated more than 50% of the time.


Don't assume from my comments that I won't lay down KK. Just last week I did, but I have to be very convinced, based on some prior knowledge that I'm up against AA. I'm not giving an unknown that much credit, even if it knocks me out. You've got a great chance to more than double up here. Laying this down is just too soft for my tastes.


Keep playing hard!

I agree with your friend. There had to be other aces used up here. And as I guessed, he made the play with less than AA.


Keep playing hard!