7 Card Stud the game of the masters?

[PokerMaster]

Ive been hearing lots of comments with some poker players and dealers, and they have all told me the same thing, 7 card stud is the game of the masters. I love it but,why do they say this?

[Andy B]

Probably because they heard it somewhere. An expert stud player has a greater advantage over his opponents than an expert hold'em player has over his, as he has more information available to him and is able to use it to squeeze an extra bet out of his opponents here or to save a bet there. That said, hold'em experts are probably making more than stud experts now, because there are more and better hold'em games. I'm one of the better stud players in Minnesota, and I can't find a game.

[BeerMoney]

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I'm one of the better stud players in Minnesota, and I can't find a game.

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They have a game or two online /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[FeliciaLee]

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"Any game where there's more decisions to make is a more skillful game. If someone can master seven-card stud, then they can master any poker game."

--Chip Reese

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Sklansky says that Stud High is the most skillful game as far as the difficulty of playing correctly.


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[grandgnu]

I started out playing 7-stud and then learned Hold Em and then Omaha.

I enjoy them all, especially the hi/lo variants of Omaha and Stud.

That being said, in Hold Em it's more about playing the player, understanding their two card holding and their betting tells.

In 7-stud it's all about being able to analyze the information that is presented to you and make it work. Yeah, you've got A/K/Q starting out, but not one of them is suited and there's two 10's out and your Ace is over there and your Queen is over there, etc.

So many players don't understand that they need to really remember how many clubs were out, does your opponent really have that flush, etc?

Some say that stud is easier because there is more information available. I disagree, it's harder because you HAVE to recall all the cards and suits that have been out.

[Nick_Foxx]

on a related note, i've seen an influx of hold'em players "branching out" to other games on-line... and they are getting SMOKED... for example, they play any holding containing an AK like it's the nuts... and as far as i can tell, they give very little consideration to other peoples' boards and the liveness of their own cards

thus suggesting that 7-stud will provide a good foundation for hold'em but the opposite is completely untrue

mike

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
on a related note, i've seen an influx of hold'em players "branching out" to other games on-line... and they are getting SMOKED... for example, they play any holding containing an AK like it's the nuts... and as far as i can tell, they give very little consideration to other peoples' boards and the liveness of their own cards

thus suggesting that 7-stud will provide a good foundation for hold'em but the opposite is completely untrue

mike

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Exactly. Similar to how I make my money in Pot Limit Omaha Hi/Lo. People are calling you down with 3rd or 4th best hands, betting into an obvious low, etc.

They'll also bet into an obvious low in 7-stud hi/lo when they're holding trips or some other vulnerable holding. So it's easy to turn your low into a straight or flush and bust up their two pair and trip highs as well.

I love all the hold em players, so many of them don't have a freaking clue, it's a gold mine, w00t!

[turnipmonster]

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thus suggesting that 7-stud will provide a good foundation for hold'em but the opposite is completely untrue

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the concept of domination is pretty foreign to most old school stud players.

--turnipmonster

[Nick_Foxx]

true but all you need is a couple of sessions in which you play hands that get outkicked to learn that lesson

[Andy B]

Dunno, I know some people who have been playing hold'em a long time who haven't learned that lesson.

[Dharzhak]

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That being said, in Hold Em it's more about playing the player, understanding their two card holding and their betting tells.

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That's potentially more true in live games than online. The advantage of live games is that they tend to be more sociable and you get a lot more information about the emotional state of your opponents.

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Some say that stud is easier because there is more information available. I disagree, it's harder because you HAVE to recall all the cards and suits that have been out.

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If you have a good short term memory and knowledge on the proper way to play 3rd street, then stud is a much easier game to beat, esp. against those that don't. Again, I prefer to play live, partially because of tells, but mostly I know who the other regulars are and, thus, who I generally have to credit with playing properly and those who would call with AJ7 rainbow.

One of the dealers at Motor City casino said that 7 stud players tend to be average at HE, but HE players usually get slaughtered at 7 stud. Obviously, there are players that are very skilled at both, but I would believe his statement to be largely true because the two games stress different skills.

Regards,
Noal

[Andy B]

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thus suggesting that 7-stud will provide a good foundation for hold'em but the opposite is completely untrue

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I don't think that this necessarily holds. I do think that one game can provide a foundation for the other game, but you have to make some significant adjustments. The AK example is one where I think that if someone thinks about it a bit, he can see why it's a strong hand in hold'em but not so much in stud. In hold'em, you have about a 1/3 chance of flopping a pair. This will always be top pair/top kicker, which is frequently good enough to win. In stud, you have to pay for each card individually, and one pair is a lot less likely to win in stud than it is in hold'em. Also, if you raise before the flop with your AK in hold'em, you can frequently buy the pot on the flop even if you don't hit as long as there aren't too many players. It's harder to buy stud pots, in my experience.

[jon_1van]

One of the reasons AK is so strong in HE but not in Stud is that if and A or K flops in HE the opponent has 1 less card to make his hand...this is not true in stud

[PokerMaster]

holdem is 7-card stud for dummies LOL , thats funny

[grandgnu]

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holdem is 7-card stud for dummies LOL , thats funny

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We often find the truth to be the most amusing of things. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[FeliciaLee]

One of the problems I see with Stud players who turn to HE, is that they have a hard time playing more hands before the flop. I certainly have noticed that with my own play, and I see others in the same boat all the time.

On the reverse side, some HE players think they should always see fourth in Stud. They get hurt really badly following this line of thinking.

Felicia /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[obi---one]

I found it easier to improve my 7 card stud game than hold-em. I took about a year and a half to go from a 3-6 hold-em player to a 20-40 hold-em player. And another year to go to 40-80- and trying to move up again to higher limits. I started playing stud at the 20-40 level about six months ago because I liked to be able to play the other games when I didn't like the hold-em lineups. And they have a good stud 8, omaha 8 40- 80 mix where I used to play. I became a winner in that game in less than ten sessions. I think it depends on your strengths as a player to how well you adapt to other games. If you are good at analying the situations and paying attention to the cards, of course you will transition to stud easier. I think the hardest adjustment to stud eight or better is knowing when you are going to get trapped for multiple bets on later streets and avoiding the situation and getting away from high one pair hands. Anyway, I think they both require a lot of skill to continually be taking the money, but some of the skills needed to be a winning player are different and some are the same. I think if you leard how to play other games it will definitely improve your overall poker game as you will be able to analyze situations form a different prospective.

[B Mando]

In my opinion, other games such as Omaha, O8, Stud, and Stud8 are very profitable ONLINE especially because there are always the people who are on tilt and come over to the game to just dump the rest of their bankroll...
For example, I was playing in a 2-4 Stud8 game about two days ago and this guy reloaded twice with 100$ each time in a 2-4 game...He played everyhand. I was laughing, it was AWESOME!! He might have been drunk or something but it sure seemed to be a case of the "Im on tilt from holdem trying a game I only know the rules of"...His 200$ he donated to the table sure made everyones win rates go up...50BB amongst 7 people over the course of about an hour!!! not to mention the regular fishes swimming in the waters...This one guy made about 150$ in an hour...I was only up about 5BB if I remember right...

[timmer]

Be aware that even bad players can run good for a surprising length of time in stud because of the high suck out factor. Also that is often correct to chase given the high inplied odds that a hidden river afford. This is some of why Stud 7 has such a high variance.

To suggest any one can become a good 7 stud player or, even an OK one, after playing only a handfull of sessions is laughable to us that have been there done that.

timmer