foxwoods gossip

[snakehead]

tuan le, the winner at the foxwoods main event, was staked to a super sattelite by hassan habib. the deal was a 50-50 split of any winnings. pretty good deal for hassan.

there is a rumor that tuan took his winnings in cash, and encountered some trouble at the airport, but eventually made it home.

tuan is an interesting player. a year or two ago, he ran his bankroll up to almost $1 million playing poker in la. most of it came from taking shots at larry flint's game. he then went to vegas and lost it all playing pai gow or baccarat, I don't remember which.

maybe he'll hold onto it this time.

[barryg1]

Hassan didn't stake him. He did take the money in cash and was stopped. He lost some money in the pit, but not the majority.

1 out of 3.

[phixxx]

Owned.

[Boris]

more tuan le gossip. I was at the commerce a few months ago. I'm playing in a tournament at the same table as tuan le. He had just lost $10k to sam grizzle on a prob bet. the bet was a 50 yard foot race. sam grizzle gets a 10 yard head start. i was suprised tuan lost because he is young and looks to be in decent shape. sam grizzle is old and fat and gimpy. turns out that ted forrest backed sam in the bet. tuan said he shoulda known better than to bet the other side of ted forrest.

[etizzle]

why was he stopped, and why did he lose money in the pit? I'm missing something here.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
why was he stopped, and why did he lose money in the pit? I'm missing something here.

[/ QUOTE ]

In this day an age of paranoia and fear, I suspect a person (a non-caucasian even more so) with a huge amount of cash will be suspected for all kinds of things.

[Rushmore]

Don't these people know that money doesn't grow on trees??!

There are people starving in China.

These guys need to learn the value of a dollar.

They oughta learn what it is to put in a good, honest day's work.

Sorry. I think my father snuck into my house and got my password.

Disregard.

[snakehead]

well, I haven't talked to tuan yet, but I would put money on my sources that he was staked by hassan. and he's the one who told me he lost his roll in the vegas pits, so I'll stand behind that one also. why do you disagree?

[snakehead]

I heard about this bet before the race. it seemed obvious to me that sam and ted wouldn't bet unless they knew something.

[Big Country]

I believe customs requires you to declare anything over $10K... anyone traveling with large amounts of cash is suspicious

[snakehead]

you are only required to declare amounts over $10k if you are leaving the country. but airport officials are allowed to question anyone with large amounts of cash, and in some cases, confiscate the cash. this is all part of america's war on drugs.

[slickpoppa]

What kind of an idiot would take his winnings in cash? It wouldn't even help him cheat on his taxes because he had to fill out an IRS form when he won.

[NLfool]

seriously what's the over/under on him blowing his 2nd million. Must be one hell of a player but according to pokerpages he basically was a big dog on every big hand but came out all roses.

[shaniac]

[ QUOTE ]
It wouldn't even help him cheat on his taxes because he had to fill out an IRS form when he won.

[/ QUOTE ]


Actually that's incorrect, since he won the money in a Foxwoods' added-money tournament. According to what TD Mike Ward told me--Foxwoods does not issue a W2G (or whatever the form number is) to anyone who whon less than 300-1 on his buyin. Something about adding money to the prize pool. I even asked him "So when I win $2M you won't take out taxes" and he said "correct."

If Foxwoods got audited then of course the money exchange would be on record, but as far as gambling against the IRS goes, this isn't the worst time for Tuan to do it.

Shane

[Greg (FossilMan)]

You are right that FW does not issue paperwork on these wins, i.e., no W2Gs or 1099s. However, there does not have to be an audit before the IRS would find out. Foxwoods will voluntarily give the information to the IRS if simply asked. So don't win big at FW and presume you can cheat on your taxes. It could come back and bite you, even land you in jail.

later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[barryg1]

[ QUOTE ]
well, I haven't talked to tuan yet, but I would put money on my sources that he was staked by hassan. and he's the one who told me he lost his roll in the vegas pits, so I'll stand behind that one also. why do you disagree?

[/ QUOTE ]
My girlfriend Alex talked him into playing in the satellite that got him into the tournament. Tuan called me at almost every break during the tournament.

As for the previous time he had money, he lost a lot back in the Larry game and may not have ended up ahead overall. However, he also won money playing in various lower limit games during that period. He lost some back, lent a lot out, lost some in sports, lost some in the pit, and subsidized parties for his friends with the rest.

[italianstang]

And I don't think he actually "lost" the money in the pit, as in, he didn't put it down behind a Three Card Poker table, walk away, then come back later to find it was stolen.

I think he meant that he lost in gambling at a table game.

But I could be wrong.

[italianstang]

Is that just a Foxwoods rule? An Indian casino rule? Because they are always talking about the WSOP on ESPN being the only place in sports where you can walk out the door with all 5 million in cash or whatever if you want. Although that crazy-ass loud, small, dark, smelly elevator in the parking garage scares the crap out of me everytime I go in it and wouldn't really want to carry 80 pounds of cash with me...

[thirddan]

[ QUOTE ]
he lost a lot back in the Larry game

[/ QUOTE ]

What is a Larry game?

[random]

Larry Flynt hosts a big game.

[midas]

Gregg:

I definitely agree with you on this point. Almost all winners are published somewhere on a website (including FW)so the IRS would not have difficulty knowing there was a big win and tracking to see whether the income was reported.

[shaniac]

If I ever won a huge some of money at Foxwoods, like Tuan did, I wouldn't consider trying to avoid the taxes on it. But I wouldn't take it in cash either. I'd be depositing a pretty big check into my bank and the IRS would know about it pretty quickly.

But just for the sake of argument, let's say Tuan is comfortable having all this cash around: isn't he running a much lower risk trying to avoid paying taxes on a Foxwoods tourney-win than he would be trying to dodge taxes on a big win from a casino that DID issue tax forms.

When the IRS shows up at his door asking for their share of the $1.5M, what prevents him from saying "sorry guys, spent it on a crazy weekend in Tijuana, nothing left for you."

Shane

[snakehead]

then maybe it's nothing more than rumor. I have had three players at the commerce tell me he was staked by hassan, and that the split was 50-50. one of them was at the tourney, and one is someone who used to play in your game (dh). funny how these things spread. as for making the money in the larry game and losing it in vegas, that'a what tuan told me while we were playing at the bike last summer.

[snakehead]

[ QUOTE ]
What kind of an idiot would take his winnings in cash?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure he has his reasons, whether they be nefarious or not. I can think of a few words to describe tuan, but idiot isn't one of them.

[midas]

Fear of prison for tax evasion!!

[fnurt]

[ QUOTE ]
If I ever won a huge some of money at Foxwoods, like Tuan did, I wouldn't consider trying to avoid the taxes on it. But I wouldn't take it in cash either. I'd be depositing a pretty big check into my bank and the IRS would know about it pretty quickly.

But just for the sake of argument, let's say Tuan is comfortable having all this cash around: isn't he running a much lower risk trying to avoid paying taxes on a Foxwoods tourney-win than he would be trying to dodge taxes on a big win from a casino that DID issue tax forms.

When the IRS shows up at his door asking for their share of the $1.5M, what prevents him from saying "sorry guys, spent it on a crazy weekend in Tijuana, nothing left for you."

Shane

[/ QUOTE ]

For the record, telling the IRS "sorry, I blew the cash already" isn't the best strategy...

[Lurshy]

[ QUOTE ]
from a casino that DID issue tax forms

[/ QUOTE ]

For the record, Foxwoods does issue 1099-G forms to winners in thier casino (especially big Slot Payouts), but apparently the rules are different for poker, maybe because you are not winning the money from 'the house'.

As for avoiding taxes, remember: Having to pay taxes (via a big check) is usually a good problem, it means you made more money than you expected /images/graemlins/cool.gif. Getting a big tax refund while short term /images/graemlins/smile.gif, usually means you made less than you expected to /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[mmcd]

When the IRS shows up at his door asking for their share of the $1.5M, what prevents him from saying "sorry guys, spent it on a crazy weekend in Tijuana, nothing left for you."

He'll still owe them the money (+ interest and penalties).

It's not like they'll just forget about his tax debt once they see that he doesn't have enough in the bank to pay it.

[shaniac]

[ QUOTE ]
For the record, telling the IRS "sorry, I blew the cash already" isn't the best strategy...

[/ QUOTE ]

Which leads me to ask...what if he actually DID blow all the money. He takes his 1.5M in cash, gives for the sake of argument half to Hassan Habib, then goes to the Bellagio and plays $20,000 a hand at blackjack until the remaining 750K is gone. Does he owe the IRS money on the 1.5M or the 750K?

Also, is the IRS man really sitting around watching the WPT on Wednesday night wondering "did Tuan ever pay his taxes on that?"

Anyway, this wasn't my point (not that I had much of a point to begin with). My original question was: If ever there was an opportunity to try and blow off the IRS on a HUGE tournament win, wouldn't a big win at Foxwoods be it?

Shane

[James282]

Perhaps, but there is no such opportunity.
-James

[mmcd]

If ever there was an opportunity to try and blow off the IRS on a HUGE tournament win, wouldn't a big win at Foxwoods be it?

Sure. Fly down to Miami with the cash in tow, take a boat ride to the caymens or wherever and enjoy retirement. Just don't be surprised if there are some guys that want to talk to you if you ever decide to come back.

[mmcd]

I think a more intersting angle here would be entering the tournament as Joe Smith from Bumblefuck, Iowa or whatever and then just taking any winnings in cash. Without the tax forms/paperwork, it seems that pulling something like this would at least be feasible.

[fnurt]

once you earn it you owe the tax, no matter what happens to it afterwards. if you win money and then lose it back in the same "session" it doesn't have to be income, but no way is a poker tournament followed by a trip to the pit the same session.

[TriGonzo]

I can't believe the guy actually walked out of the casino with 1.5 mill in a suitcase. madman!

[Boris]

Wouldn't that be the coolest feeling ever?

[italianstang]

Until you got held up by some guy with a spork. What are you gonna do? And specifically, what would Tuan do? He is not a real big guy and he couldn't beat Grizzle in a footrace, he is screwed. Does the guy who mugs him have to pay taxes on the money? Which brings up another point, what if he claimed the money was stolen before he even left the property?

[Bigdaddydvo]

I'm pretty sure that if he pissed away his winnings at the blackjack table, he'd be good as far as the IRS goes. There is a section on the long 1040 where you can count gambling losses against winnings (though losses of themselves are not tax deductible).

[Boris]

[ QUOTE ]
What are you gonna do?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would Ron Artest to be my body guard. I heard he needs a job.

[astrodon]

Actually, this pertains to federal law and is the same reason there are no denominations in currency above $100 C note. The government is very much interested in the flow of cash particularly due to the drug trade and other possible illegal activities requiring the laundering of monies.

Any bank deposit made in the US above 10k must be reported on Form 443. This would include any deposit of any amount that the teller at the time thought was suspicious - even $100. Any 10k transport across state lines as well. Any cash purchase that is over 10k is required to be reported. Any lawyer that is paid in cash is to be reported as well. Any foreign wire transfers above 10k are reported, etc.

So, the subject was not reported because of his apparent or assumed national origin or terrorism or any such nonsense - it's federal law and has been since the installation of the federal banking system several generations ago.

[Duke]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure he has his reasons, whether they be nefarious or not. I can think of a few words to describe tuan, but idiot isn't one of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hopefully he'll now be removed from the "5 people most talked about as indebted poker players" list.

Whether he was still in debt isn't the issue, his name was thrown around for a while though.

~D

[shaniac]

Yes, if you have either a super-low profile or a good disguise in addition to adequate fake identification.

But dreaming about schemes is always easier than executing them.

Shane

[James282]

A disguise sounds like a good idea. If you ever try it let me know.
-James

[snakehead]

I spoke to tuan tonight at the commerce. he confirmed that hassan staked him in the tournament, as he has been doing for some time. he was surprised that you didn't know it. so I guess I got at least 2 out or 3.

[barryg1]

[ QUOTE ]
I spoke to tuan tonight at the commerce. he confirmed that hassan staked him in the tournament, as he has been doing for some time. he was surprised that you didn't know it. so I guess I got at least 2 out or 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

I talked to Tuan tonight also. Although you were not exactly right, you were closer than I was. Tuan won the satellite on his own and was not staked, which I knew because I was there. But once he won the $10,000 seat he wanted to sell off some pieces because he was short on money. He had been sharing a room with Hassan because there were no rooms available when Tuan showed up at Foxwoods. Hassan paid Tuan's share of the room and gave him an extra $2,000 cash for 1/3 of his action in the tournament. Tuan sold 17% to a close friend and swapped 2% with another. So, he was not staked but as you (snakehead) stated, he only made about 50% before taxes. Hassan paid for the plane ride home once Tuan won and I would expect some parties will be on him.

By the way, Tuan took the money in cash because he didn't have a bank account (not that atypical among my Vietnamese friends) and he was unable to get ahold of me for advice when it came time to take the money. He brought it on the plane in a plastic bag, which he put under his seat on the plane ride home. He was stopped when he got off the plane in LA. He convinced the cops that he won the tournament and they let him go without calling Foxwoods.

He offered to let me hold the money because he was afraid he would make some of the mistakes that he had in the past.

Barry

[AJo Go All In]

isn't it spelled "hasan"? can you ask tuan about that?

[ShamaLamDingDong]

Lets say they look at your identification when you win and record your name. Do they record anything else such as social security number? If not, well many poeple share the same names (maybe not in this case), so whose to say it wasn't another John Doe or whoever?

-SHAMA LAMA...DING DONG!

[astrodon]

If you don't have your SSI on you, a large cash win will not be transferred until you can verify your SSI. Uncle Sam is very stingy about letting HIS hard earned dollars get away. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[astrodon]

[ QUOTE ]
casino that DID issue tax forms

[/ QUOTE ]

Suggesting there are casinos that do not. There is no such casino in America (legal one that is) that does not by federal law. Again Uncle wants his hard earned dollars up front. And he has the /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Greg (FossilMan)]

This is wrong. I've cashed at Foxwoods often enough to know. They do require that you register with a Wampum card, and you need some form of identification to get a wampum card, but it does not need to include your SSN. A driver's license, sans SSI, will do.

When I won $5M at Binions, they also did not require proof of SSN. Just my license.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[Scooterdoo]

I've had a bunch of 1k+ tournament wins at several casinos and the only thing ever required is a drivers license. They do always ask for the SS# and give me a W-2g.

[astrodon]

Greg;

What I am saying is based on my knowledge of law from a law enforcement perspective, being in law enforcement and the chief investigator for wire fraud; white collar crime, etc. Evidently the documents you mentioned have links to your SSI and are sufficient as such. But the final analysis is SSI IS required for federal issues such as Income Tax and suspicious activities, etc.

BTW. I live in a town named Fossil and have often looked forward to playing the 'fossil man' EV notwithstanding. /images/graemlins/grin.gif