Showing bluffs to encourage call downs/tilt

[helpmeout]

Today I was having one of those days.$5/$10 +$200 --> -$200

A loose player at a table kept showing her bluffs, after frequently getting rivered I went on tilt.

Her showing of bluffs made me call down with obvious losing hands when raised on the turn or river. I kept thinking that maybe she was bluffing when it was obvious she wasnt.

She sucked me in badly, which got me thinking about using this tactic against people who are having a bad run or complaining about bad beats.

These sort of players can easily go from slightly tilting to desperately wanting to win a pot, calling down everything.

What do people think of this sort of strategy and do you use it or similar strategies yourselves?

[naphand]

This has been discussed before, and I think the consensus among the better players was that showing cards is almost always wrong. Why give people information for free? If they want to see my cards they can pay. If a player is betting a lot of hands and winning without SD people will start to call anyway, as it is clear they are bluffing. I was playing some maniacal fish yesterday who was bluffing like crazy, V$IP 70-80% PFR 50-60%, who would frequently show his cards. I kept getting crap, so I kept folding. Others were calling down with bottom pair with hands like 73o. Of course he sucked out a lot, you have to playing that many hands. And a lot of times people called him, his stack was up and down like a yo-yo. Result: super-aggro leaves the table up 48 BB, I lose a small amount to him but my play was fine. I got crap, I am not chasing crap no matter how pissed I am.

People will start to call you if you bluff a lot, you don't need to show your cards. Read over your post again, what you have actually said is "I am relying on getting good hands after I bluff". Show your bluffs, which appear to be working, you get called down more and bluffing loses its effectiveness. You are left with having to SD all your hands and rely on getting good cards. Why would you want people to force you to SD? Stay in control.

It is a big skill to learn to bluff optimally, I do not recall showing cards being part of that skill. Poker is about keeping your opponents guessing. Of course, people see bluffs getting shown in WPT, and it's so cool. But that is a very different situation, it is big bet poker and the players know a lot about each other, trying to exploit a big mistake to the max is much more important in that situation, perhaps, where 1 hand wins or loses the tournament. I also doubt that you will find top players showing their cards very often, but people always remember when they do. In limit games, you cannot win on one big hand, and while you may put someone on tilt, or even the whole table, your tactic relies on being able to showdown the best hand once you given away your game.

Of course, some days maniacal players seem to just get perfect sequences of cards, they get a run of good hands, then run a load of bluffs some of which suck out, then get another good run of 3-4 big hands and so on. It is scary, and amusing, to see this happen but it is the fodder of the ultra-LAGs. Don't try to outsmart yourself, play solid poker and keep your opponents guessing. Remember always, that the games you see are a small sample and it is easy to watch a player apparently playing crazy, leave the table hugely up, and begin to imagine there is a strategy behind it. There is a strategy, it is called losing. Maniacal players are driven by their egos and the need to push people around (I am sure Al Schoonmaker must have plenty to say about this, and it might prove very interesting reading), poker for these types is all about getting into the minds of others and tormenting them. They must be very sad and insecure people.

The two biggest donators at the tables are the fish and the ultra-LAGs. How many solid players do you see showing their cards? Why would you want to play like an idiot?

Just for the record, I do recall showing my cards once on a bluff, against a super-LAG. Despite his belief he owned the table, myself and another player were steadily racking up the chips. When I showed, the whole table laughed. And while it was funny, super-LAG left the table shortly after this, a defeated man. What did I achieve by showing? the table lost it's biggest donator. Although the rest were glad he was gone so the game could proceed more "normally". Most (average or less) players hate having a player like this on their table, as they are there to have fun and detest all the aggro and big swings.

I think focussing on learning how to play maniacs, and actively seeking them out, would be far more profitable than trying to be one. Ultimately, giving people a hard time on the tables by inducing tilt will have a negative impact on the game, short-term gain for you perhaps but being chatty and amusing the fish you get more fish to play.

[kiddo]

U should never show a bluff when it makes them look a bad player. It has the same effect as saying: "You chasing idiot! how the f**k could u play that, biatch!".

You dont know what will happend and you are behaving bad, making people want to play at another table.

Showing a bluff when u looks stupid, if u think it will make them play worse against u, that is maybe an option.

[jomatty]

I think against tough competition showing any cards is almost certainly wrong. Against weaker, easier to manipulate, opponents i sometimes use/posibly overuse this tactic. You know what information you give and if you know how they will process this info then it can be used to your advantage.
I generally think that most players however overuse these plays and overestimate their abilities in comparison to their opponents which can make this somewhat dangerous. I think if you never showed a hand, ever most players would give up nothing and probably gain fairly much.
That said, i think if the table conditions are right then it can have some +ev,
The he knows that i know that he knows... is too complicated to make it ever a good idea against tough opposition
matty

[Mr. Graff]

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Although the rest were glad he was gone so the game could proceed more "normally". Most (average or less) players hate having a player like this on their table, as they are there to have fun and detest all the aggro and big swings.

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I hate when people start to berate and gang up on a maniac. Sometimes the maniac leaves and sometimes he starts playing more rationally. Somehow they prefer everyone playing correctly so they can stay within their own comfort zone instead of trying to find ways of exploiting the maniacs play.