Pacers-Pistons-Fans [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

dr. klopek

11-20-2004, 05:35 PM

it's equal. wallace shove>cup throwing>punching. pistons fans got pissed because wallace did. the fan threw the cup because he felt safely protected by the crowd. Artest had already restrained himself and that was the last of the getting walked-on he was willing to put up with. None of these events happen without the shove, and that is the most understandable action of all.

Matty

11-21-2004, 07:55 PM

Gotta show off the new avatar now ...

namknils

11-21-2004, 08:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I'm saying the fans- and I am not an Artest fan.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who's that i your avatar?

The main portion of the blame should definately be on Artest. The fan was out of line to throw the cup, but if Artest just points him out he is gone, no problem. Once Artest charged into the stands thats when everthing broke down.

Artest is at fault.

Edge34

11-21-2004, 08:30 PM

So by your logic, it is more the fault of the person who got attacked than the drunken moron who DID the attacking. This makes no sense to me.

Sure, Artest shouldn't have gone into the stands, but that stupid "fan" sure as hell shouldn't have gone off and thrown stuff there.

Cause -> Effect.

-Edge

namknils

11-21-2004, 08:38 PM

That stupid fan would have been thrown out, arrested, fined, whatever without Artest going in to attack him (and Artest didn't even know who did it).

You're as crazy as Artest if you think that the cup throwing (cause) deserved that kind of reaction (affect).

A_C_Slater

11-21-2004, 08:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So by your logic, it is more the fault of the person who got attacked than the drunken moron who DID the attacking. This makes no sense to me.

Sure, Artest shouldn't have gone into the stands, but that stupid "fan" sure as hell shouldn't have gone off and thrown stuff there.

Cause -> Effect.

-Edge

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like how you put the word "fan" into quotations like that, implying perhaps that he's not a real fan. Fan is an abbreviation for the word "fanatic" and I can't think of a bigger fanatic or fan than that dude.

Edge34

11-21-2004, 08:48 PM

I put the word "fan" in quotes because associating this type of drunken buffoon with those who come to the games to support their team and DON'T throw things and DON'T assault players, and generally handle themselves in a way that their team and community can look upon them with respect, that, my friend, is a true fan.

Now, if you want to split hairs about being a "fanatic", then sure, go right ahead, but I prefer to separate the much-publicized minority from the respectable, self-controlling majority of people who attend games to cheer for their favorite team.

-Edge

Edge34

11-21-2004, 08:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
That stupid fan would have been thrown out, arrested, fined, whatever without Artest going in to attack him (and Artest didn't even know who did it).

You're as crazy as Artest if you think that the cup throwing (cause) deserved that kind of reaction (affect).

[/ QUOTE ]

Note - The guy who threw stuff wanted a reaction. Well, he got one. Did Artest go too far? Sure, I've never denied that. But the fact is, the guy doesn't throw stuff at him, he doesn't go in the stands. That much is certain.

Again, cause and effect. A great majority of the blame for the situation goes on the unruly minority who turned the end of an NBA game into a freaking Real Madrid - Arsenal riot.

-Edge

JTrout

11-21-2004, 08:53 PM

If you get hit with ice-water, is it ok to charge into the stands, and put your hands on someone in the general area(who happens to still have his beer)?

A_C_Slater

11-21-2004, 08:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I put the word "fan" in quotes because associating this type of drunken buffoon with those who come to the games to support their team and DON'T throw things and DON'T assault players, and generally handle themselves in a way that their team and community can look upon them with respect, that, my friend, is a true fan.

Now, if you want to split hairs about being a "fanatic", then sure, go right ahead, but I prefer to separate the much-publicized minority from the respectable, self-controlling majority of people who attend games to cheer for their favorite team.

-Edge

[/ QUOTE ]

All those people whom you consider to the real fans are merely a bunch of dilettante wannabes who don't have the balls to kick the living dung out of Artest and all of his Pacer's cronies.

Oh yea I almost forgot. Detroit what.

Edge34

11-21-2004, 08:58 PM

So does that make you one of the "fans"?

BTW, it looks to me like Artest came out on top in the fighting portion. The fool behind Artest who had every chance to knock him out hit him like 4 times in the back of the head and didn't even faze him.

Of course, none of this should surprise me coming from a team who has long had the reputation of being the dirtiest in the league.

The REAL fans are the ones who don't feel the need to make asses out of themselves then cry when they get their stuff handed to them. More specifically, they don't make asses out of themselves in the first place.

Plus, they can handle being blown out at home.

EDIT: Detroit, so what. Not even the best team in the East this year, they need many more season suspensions to compete.

A_C_Slater

11-21-2004, 09:03 PM

Nonsense. The Pistons are America's team. And they will win by any means necessary. Single games mean nothing, it's all about the long run. The Pistons may have lost that game, but the 3 Pacer's being suspended is EV+ for them and it was a most fiendish plan carried out with utmost precision and diabolical ruthlessness. The Piston's will figure their style out by playoff time, just like they did last year.

Clarkmeister

11-21-2004, 09:05 PM

"The Pistons are America's team"

In Bizarro World, yes.

A_C_Slater

11-21-2004, 09:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"The Pistons are America's team"

In Bizarro World, yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just quoting what ESPN said last year when they won it all.

AngryCola

11-21-2004, 09:09 PM

It's ridiculous to say "Well Artest was just reacting to the fans. It's all their fault."

If you want to go by cause and effect, lets at least go ALL the way back in the timeline.

If Artest hadn't tried to commit a stupid foul with 45 seconds left and a huge lead, none of this would have happened. That's why Wallace was so upset. Artest has a history of this. Trying to commit a hard foul when the game is basically over is just completely out of line.

I don't side with the fans, but you can't stop the timeline to where it makes your side look best. /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Edge34

11-21-2004, 09:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Nonsense. The Pistons are America's team. And they will win by any means necessary. Single games mean nothing, it's all about the long run. The Pistons may have lost that game, but the 3 Pacer's being suspended is EV+ for them and it was a most fiendish plan carried out with utmost precision and diabolical ruthlessness. The Piston's will figure their style out by playoff time, just like they did last year.

[/ QUOTE ]

A wise man once said, it is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Although there's no way a sane person actually believes what you wrote...you have removed all doubt.

AngryCola

11-21-2004, 09:11 PM

Who else is going to beat the Pistons in the East? It's certainly not going to be the Pacers now. You must be counting on the Heat a whole lot more than I would. I'll have to wait and see about all that. /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Edge34

11-21-2004, 09:12 PM

Let's just go a little farther in the timeline, only ahead. You mean to tell me Wallace HAD to get his panties in such a bunch over a little foul? Shaq deals with this type of thing all game, every game.

You can't ignore facts that make your side look best either. Foul, sure, not entirely necessary. Subsequent Wallace throat punch/shove? Less necessary. Wallace continuation after Artest walks away? Not at all necessary. Foolish drunks' throwing things? Asinine.

-Edge

AngryCola

11-21-2004, 09:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Let's just go a little farther in the timeline, only ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lets not.

I'm just saying you can't absolve ANYONE in this situation. Artest got what he deserved. Wallace got MORE than he deserved. A regular fighting suspension is usually only a couple games, and Wallace got 6.

I was just trying to point out that you can't be selective about this to make your side look better. The start of the incident was Artest commiting a stupid foul. That's that. /images/graemlins/spade.gif

A_C_Slater

11-21-2004, 09:17 PM

Edge let's be honest, you obviously have a vested emotional interest in the Pacer's. All your arguments are therefore irrational and biased. And my arguments are sane and well thought out. Go Pistons.

Detroit what.

JTrout

11-21-2004, 09:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, it looks to me like Artest came out on top in the fighting portion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course Artest came out on top of the fights.
When confronted by the dangerous Wallace, he went and laid down like a scared girl.
Feeling like a frustrated puss, he then gets more embarrassment by being hit with ice-water. He looks up and finds the most nerdy looking fellow he can find, and charges after him to let out his frustrations.

A_C_Slater

11-21-2004, 09:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, it looks to me like Artest came out on top in the fighting portion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course Artest came out on top of the fights.
When confronted by the dangerous Wallace, he went and laid down like a scared girl.
Feeling like a frustrated puss, he then gets more embarrassment by being hit with ice-water. He looks up and finds the most nerdy looking fellow he can find, and charges after him to let out his frustrations.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/laugh.gif That dork was me by the way.

AngryCola

11-21-2004, 09:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
That dork was me by the way.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way!

A_C_Slater

11-21-2004, 10:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That dork was me by the way.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way!

[/ QUOTE ]

Way dude. He ran up to me and said "Was it you? Was it you!?" I said "No" and he just started pummeling me. Lucky for me he only managed to hit my back before others managed to haul the brute off of me.

AngryCola

11-21-2004, 10:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Way dude. He ran up to me and said "Was it you? Was it you!?" I said "No" and he just started pummeling me. Lucky for me he only managed to hit my back before others managed to haul the brute off of me.

[/ QUOTE ]

**Rolls Eyes** I do like that you called him a "brute" though. lol /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

A_C_Slater

11-21-2004, 10:31 PM

Was there anyway I could've conviced you? Maybe if I was more descriptive? Describing the look in his eyes and whatnot?

LargeCents

11-21-2004, 11:02 PM

I saw the whole pathetic incident live, on ESPN, then the replays over and over again. The parties to blame are Artest, and dozens and dozens of Detroit fans in attendance. Artest had no reason to charge into the stands, and I don't know how he hadn't been told/trained/whatever never to go into the stands to confront a fan. Similarly, what is the deal with the Detroit fans storming onto the floor and taking shots at the Pacer's basketball team? Is this how it is in Detroit? I've never seen anything so juvenile, and I've seen some stupid crap in my life. But, the absolute worst part is when the Pacer's basketball team tries to go into the locker room, and fans are grabbing at them, throwing crap, and dumping crap all over them. What exactly are these fans thinking?

Artest is suspended for the season, which is exactly what I expected. If the Detroit fan that threw the cup at Artest knew he'd get Artest suspended, he'd do it again in a second, I bet. Something serious has to be done to equal out the equation. I heard one idea to have the next Pacers-Detroit game played in Detroit played in an empty arena. I suggest, in addition, to get rid of the seating behind the visting team bench in Detroit for the rest of the season. It's obvious the fans don't know how to behave.

The aftermath, so far, is a clear victory for the Detroit fans. The Pacers have been crippled by suspensions that will completely change their season and all it took was a fan tossing a plastic cup at a player. I forsee a lot more debris being thrown at players with this kind of positive reinforcement schedule.

A_C_Slater

11-21-2004, 11:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I saw the whole pathetic incident live, on ESPN, then the replays over and over again. The parties to blame are Artest, and dozens and dozens of Detroit fans in attendance. Artest had no reason to charge into the stands, and I don't know how he hadn't been told/trained/whatever never to go into the stands to confront a fan. Similarly, what is the deal with the Detroit fans storming onto the floor and taking shots at the Pacer's basketball team? Is this how it is in Detroit? I've never seen anything so juvenile, and I've seen some stupid crap in my life. But, the absolute worst part is when the Pacer's basketball team tries to go into the locker room, and fans are grabbing at them, throwing crap, and dumping crap all over them. What exactly are these fans thinking?

Artest is suspended for the season, which is exactly what I expected. If the Detroit fan that threw the cup at Artest knew he'd get Artest suspended, he'd do it again in a second, I bet. Something serious has to be done to equal out the equation. I heard one idea to have the next Pacers-Detroit game played in Detroit played in an empty arena. I suggest, in addition, to get rid of the seating behind the visting team bench in Detroit for the rest of the season. It's obvious the fans don't know how to behave.

The aftermath, so far, is a clear victory for the Detroit fans. The Pacers have been crippled by suspensions that will completely change their season and all it took was a fan tossing a plastic cup at a player. I forsee a lot more debris being thrown at players with this kind of positive reinforcement schedule.

[/ QUOTE ]

Detroit what.

$DEADSEXE$

11-21-2004, 11:34 PM

If the Pacers had any balls they wouldn't bother showing up for all the Detroit home games this season..why give detriot fans any entertainment when their fans helped lose you your season.

If Steve Nash,Mike Bibby,Dirk etc aka white boys without the whole "i want to promote my music fiasco" I'de bet money that they wouldn't have been suspended for the season

Matty

11-22-2004, 02:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Who's that i your avatar?

[/ QUOTE ]This thread was made yesterday. I put Artest in my avatar a couple hours ago- not because I'm a fan, but because I'm cool.

When you're standing in the middle of thousands of hostile people who have been harassing you in the worst ways from inches away for hours ... and they start throwing things at you and you don't know what's going to be thrown next, I can understand why Artest would reflexively make a charge. Certainly it was stupid, but I can empathize with why he did it.

And I can understand why his teamates did what they did. I would do the same thing. I'd run after Artest when I saw him charging (again, reflexively, either to defend him from the hostile crowd or pull him back although I probably wouldn't have time to think about those options), but once the fists start flying ... well, while their actions were stupid too, I can empathize with them as well.

Anyway, I don't think it's good for our culture to treat athletes like whipping-boys or animals in a coloseum. Because if you put anyone in the situation of a trapped animal, they're going to act like a trapped animal. And the cycle continues.