"Internet Porn worse than crack"

[wacki]

More proof that you can prove anything with statistics. To bad the Senate is listening.

Article (http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,65772,00.html)

Internet pornography is the new crack cocaine, leading to addiction, misogyny, pedophilia, boob jobs and erectile dysfunction, according to clinicians and researchers testifying before a Senate committee Thursday.

"The internet is a perfect drug delivery system because you are anonymous, aroused and have role models for these behaviors," Layden said. "To have drug pumped into your house 24/7, free, and children know how to use it better than grown-ups know how to use it -- it's a perfect delivery system if we want to have a whole generation of young addicts who will never have the drug out of their mind."

Pornography addicts have a more difficult time recovering from their addiction than cocaine addicts, since coke users can get the drug out of their system, but pornographic images stay in the brain forever, Layden said.

Sen. Sam Brownback (R-Kansas), the subcommitee's chairman, called the hearing the most disturbing one he'd ever seen in the Senate.

[Glenn]

Should be titled "Chirstianity worse than Communisim"

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
Should be titled "Chirstianity worse than Communisim"

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh, no. All of the people giving the testimony were psychiatrists. "Psychiatry worse than Communisim" would of been more accurate, but still a false presumption. The only Christian in the article is the quoted congressman.

You are guilty of extreme stereotyping and selectively reading into the article. The vast majority of Christians are more than ok with porn.

[BusterStacks]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Should be titled "Chirstianity worse than Communisim"

[/ QUOTE ]

The vast majority of Christians are more than ok with porn.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is false. Furthermore, the burden of proof is on you given that this is such a rediculous statement, so how about you show me where you got these statistics.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
This is false.

[/ QUOTE ]

Prove me wrong. I was raised Roman Catholic and I do not know anyone that is anti-porn. My dad almost became a priest, spent several years in a Seminary, and he has no problem with porn. I have lots of friends that were also raised in religious households of numerous christian denominations. All of us laughed at the anti-porn people. I don't know anyone my age, or even know someone that knows someone my age that is anti-porn. If you want to find anti-porn people your best shot is to walk into a Baptist church.

You will see alot of Christian people that still consider porn a bit taboo, but they do not consider it immoral. (And almost all of them have some form of porn.) The taboo, I think is a good thing as it promotes restraint and control.

Maybe taboo isn't the perfect word, but I think you know what I mean. They prefer discretion.

[Alobar]

ok, im sorry...you are just waaaay wrong here. The catholic church is VERY MUCH against porn. It's a giant sin. Now your typical christian might not be all up in arms about it, but saying that priests and the spiritual leaders of the church have a ho hum attitude about pron is completely retarded.

[Glenn]

No. Most people in mental health professions are educated and intelligent. You are guilty of stereotyping. Are you telling me that the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality is not a Christian based organizaion? For some reason I don't really see Jews and Athiests lining up for that one. Regardless, the only reason these fringe/extremeist groups are allowed to testify before congress is because they agree with the morals of the Christian lawmakers. Also, the groups in themselves provide no immediate danger, as they do not have the power to legislate. I have no problem with Christianity in churches, but it has no place in government.

[BusterStacks]

Man, i can already feel some serious ownage brewing. But first, let me just clarify your statement. Since majority would mean > 50%, by "vast majority", you must mean what, > 80%? And by "more than ok", you would imply a feeling above neutral, such as being in favor of. So for our purposes here, the statement you are standing by, and want me to prove wrong is:

Over 80% of Christians are in favor of pornography.

Is that right? I hope you see where I'm going with this, as I feel a personal responsibilty to punish stupidity, and even more so when it's under the guise of intelligence.

[wacki]

Athlough I was an athiest most of my life (I am now agnostic), my parents made me attend religous education classes from about age 5 to 18. I never remember the topic of porn being brought up, not in any class, and not in any gospel. I highly doubt it is a giant sin as I think I would of heard something about it. But I could be wrong.

I will ask my dad about this, as I know there are plenty of religious leaders against porn.

All I am saying is that the "vast majority of Christians have no problem with porn".

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
Is that right? I hope you see where I'm going with this, as I feel a personal responsibilty to punish stupidity, and even more so when it's under the guise of intelligence.

[/ QUOTE ]

You may think I am being stupid, but I think personal experience trumps any piece of paper. I just find it extremely difficult to believe that Christians against porn (atleast in Indiana) can be anywhere close to %50 percent. I've spent most of my life in that system and I've never met one of those people.

[BusterStacks]

So now the backtracking begins. I'm just asking you to quantify your statement, so how about you do that for me.

Over 80% of Christians have a neutral stance towards pornography?

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
Prove me wrong. I was raised Roman Catholic and I do not know anyone that is anti-porn. My dad almost became a priest, spent several years in a Seminary, and he has no problem with porn. I have lots of friends that were also raised in religious households of numerous christian denominations. All of us laughed at the anti-porn people. I don't know anyone my age, or even know someone that knows someone my age that is anti-porn. If you want to find anti-porn people your best shot is to walk into a Baptist church.

You will see alot of Christian people that still consider porn a bit taboo, but they do not consider it immoral. (And almost all of them have some form of porn.) The taboo, I think is a good thing as it promotes restraint and control.

Maybe taboo isn't the perfect word, but I think you know what I mean. They prefer discretion.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are so grossly wrong that I don't even know where to begin.

Justin A

[wacki]

I would say it's more or less neutral for 80%. I would be carefull putting a statistic on Christians fealings against porn. If you simply polled my dad and asked him if he thought it was a sin, I would not be suprised if he said yes. At the same time, he came to the aid and strongly defended a man that was in trouble for surfing a porn website at work. If it wasn't for my dad, that man would of lost his job. Somethings simply don't transfer well to paper. I would not be suprised if this was one of them. It's a unique situation. If there was a poll of Christians, it would have to be phrased very carefully. Porn is taboo, but it is not a huge deal. It's hard to explain. Alot of things in the Bible are read wrong.

Alot of people think that divorce doesn't exist in the Bible. This isn't true. Even Mosses granted a divorce to a large group of Jews. God doesn't like divorce, in fact he seems to hate it, but he puts up with it. Try your hardest to refrain, but if the situation gets too tough to deal with, he will understand. A lot of stuff that is in the Bible is read way to literally by a lot of the more high profile people. It's not like that in your average Roman Catholic church. It's a very complex situation.... Will type more later, I have to go to the lab.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]

You are so grossly wrong that I don't even know where to begin.

Justin A

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I think I am right. What you see on TV, or in the news, is not your typical Christian.

[Glenn]

I don't disagree that the majority of Christians don't view things such as pornography as major threats to society. The problem is, their religious leaders and political leaders do, and they don't speak out against these radical stances. As I'm sure you know, almost all versions of Christianity don't encourage discussion about moral issues. It is more a of a "do what you're told" kind of deal. The leaders of the chruches, who are more extreme in their views, set the morals of their members, and they, in turn, elect people who set the morals for society. This is what makes the Christian machine so dangerous. The extreme views of a few charismatic religious leaders are represented by a near majority of the legislature.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You are so grossly wrong that I don't even know where to begin.

Justin A

[/ QUOTE ]


No, I think I am right. What you see on TV, or in the news, is not your typical Christian.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your whole argument is so absurd that you are either a complete idiot or just trolling, I really hope its the latter. It's also so stupid that I'm not going to waste my time showing you how wrong it is. because anyone who actually knows anything about the chruch or actually knows someone who is a true christian, knows the gross misconception that is your earlier post.

[Matty]

[ QUOTE ]
The vast majority of Christians are more than ok with porn.

[/ QUOTE ]As the son of a pastor I'm gonna have to call a big bullshit on that one.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]

I would say it's more or less neutral for 80%. I would be carefull putting a statistic on Christians fealings against porn. If you simply polled my dad and asked him if he thought it was a sin, I would not be suprised if he said yes. At the same time, he came to the aid and strongly defended a man that was in trouble for surfing a porn website at work. If it wasn't for my dad, that man would of lost his job. Somethings simply don't transfer well to paper. I would not be suprised if this was one of them. It's a unique situation. If there was a poll of Christians, it would have to be phrased very carefully. Porn is taboo, but it is not a huge deal. It's hard to explain. Alot of things in the Bible are read wrong.

Alot of people think that divorce doesn't exist in the Bible. This isn't true. Even Mosses granted a divorce to a large group of Jews. God doesn't like divorce, in fact he seems to hate it, but he puts up with it. Try your hardest to refrain, but if the situation gets too tough to deal with, he will understand. A lot of stuff that is in the Bible is read way to literally by a lot of the more high profile people. It's not like that in your average Roman Catholic church. It's a very complex situation.... Will type more later, I have to go to the lab.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your avatar is rather fitting.

Justin A

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
No, I think I am right. What you see on TV, or in the news, is not your typical Christian.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see Christians on TV or in the news. I am your typical Christian, as is most of my family, and numerous people I've met over the years through church and school.

Justin A

[Slacker13]

Two guys I know borrowed $250,000 5 years ago from a loan shark taking the chance of their lives, they started an internet porn company and have averaged 60-85 million in revenue in the past four years. So yes, I would say there is a major demand for internet porn.

[wacki]

I'm not trolling. I cannot believe how thick headed everyone in here is being. Here is a quote on divorce:

Matthew 19:3-12 3 And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, "Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?" 4 He answered, "Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? 6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder." 7 They said to him, "Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" 8 He said to them, "For your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.


And my dad is not a pastor, nor did he ever want to be one. He spent several years in a Seminary and was considering priesthood. There is a big difference.

All I'm saying is that in the community, for all practical purposes most Christians and even Roman Catholics are ok with porn. I'm not argueing if the church considers porn a sin or not, I'm just saying that I've never met someone that said porn was evil and I've spent most of my life in the system. I've seen people argue that on TV, but I've never seen it in real life.

It seems to me that most of the people in this thread haven't spent any real time in church. Maybe you need to read this article.

Democrats Need to ‘Get Religion.’ It’s Not Scary
http://www.rollcall.com/pub/50_49/kondracke/7317-1.html


My post-election advice to Democrats is: Go to church. Don’t go to “get religion,” although it might be good for your soul. Just go, in the first instance, to “get” religion, i.e. understand what goes on in the heads and hearts of those who devoutly believe in God and how it affects their views of the world. It will help you politically.

I think religion is the most misunderstood phenomenon by the left. I don't blame them, there are a lot of people that are religious that screw it up as well.

Grey, you are from Indiana. Your dad is a pastor. What denomination? That makes a big difference. The vast majority of Christians are Roman Catholic.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't disagree that the majority of Christians don't view things such as pornography as major threats to society.

[/ QUOTE ]

THANKYOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


[ QUOTE ]
The problem is, their religious leaders and political leaders do, and they don't speak out against these radical stances.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. But I wouldn't say all of them. I have a bit of a problem with organized religion. For instance, do you know the reason why priests can't marry? I'll give you a clue, the answer is not in the Bible.

Also, I have major questions about the book of Thomas and why it was left out.

[ QUOTE ]
As I'm sure you know, almost all versions of Christianity don't encourage discussion about moral issues. It is more a of a "do what you're told" kind of deal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kind of. It's more like this is the way you should be. Try to be good but don't judge others too harshly. There is alot of "turn the other cheek" and "harden not your hearts" kind of stuff. Sometimes those messages fall on deaf ears though.


[ QUOTE ]
The leaders of the chruches, who are more extreme in their views, set the morals of their members, and they, in turn, elect people who set the morals for society. This is what makes the Christian machine so dangerous. The extreme views of a few charismatic religious leaders are represented by a near majority of the legislature.

[/ QUOTE ]

Near majority of the legislature, I would agree. But I'm not totally convinced that this is the case with the priests on the lowest levels. You know, the guys actually interacting with the people and not running the Vatican.

[Daliman]

bah, what do you know?

it's "Klaatu Barada Nikto" /images/graemlins/smirk.gif /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
bah, what do you know?

it's "Klaatu Barada Nikto" /images/graemlins/smirk.gif /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Ill admit I have no clue how to spell the words, but I'm faily confident it is NOT "barada"

don't make me break out my DVD and put close captioning on and look /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Alobar]

Heh, Im obviously bored, cuz I broke out the DVD. Sadly no closed captioning /images/graemlins/frown.gif

So I looked for the official screenplay on the internet. Which is HERE (http://www.godamongdirectors.com/scripts/armyodark.shtml)

"Clatto Verata Nicto" I think he should have spelled it with a "K" tho, it looks cooler that way

[Cyrus]

"I never remember the topic of porn being brought up, not in any class, and not in any gospel. I highly doubt it is a giant sin as I think I would of heard something about it."

Well, did you have discussions about incest? About robbing banks? Murder?

Some things might be considered so obvious as not to merit special mention.

"The vast majority of Christians have no problem with porn."

The vast majority of people don't have a problem with it.

But people who are not your average, rather casual christian folks, people who are (shall we say) keen on the Lord, I believe they have an enormous problem with most things erotic, including porn.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, did you have discussions about incest?

[/ QUOTE ]
yes. (It's in the old and new testament I believe)
And it is treated very harshly by the Bible.

[ QUOTE ]
About robbing banks?

[/ QUOTE ]
yes. (Thou shall not steal)

[ QUOTE ]
Murder?

[/ QUOTE ]
and yes. (Thou shall not kill)

[ QUOTE ]
"The vast majority of Christians have no problem with porn."

The vast majority of people don't have a problem with it.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

[ QUOTE ]
But people who are not your average, rather casual christian folks, people who are (shall we say) keen on the Lord, I believe they have an enormous problem with most things erotic, including porn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like to call those people fanatics. I will say that I have met many people that were "keen" on the lord and are of sound mind as well. My Indiana roommate is very religious and it is not stopping him from having sex at all. When he gets back, I'm sure he will have more than enough verses in the Bible to point to. To explain why he thinks it's, at minimum, tolerable. I think that, just like the fanatic Muslims, the select few Christians completely paint the picture for the vast majority.

[ilya]

I disagree, internet porn is a lot better than crack.

P.S. wacki is clearly right about the Christian/porn thing, you guys are being silly.

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
-- Well, did you have discussions about incest?
-- Yes.
-- About robbing banks?
-- Yes.
-- Murder?
-- And yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow.

Those musta been some interesting fireside chats, in your parents' home, I gotta say! /images/graemlins/cool.gif

What was your family's favorite video to watch together, "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre" ? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Niwa]

Haha best laugh today /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[daryn]

sad how this thread got hijacked just because the first guy who responded seems to want to jump on the christian-bashing wagon.

anyway, i seriously have no porn on my computer for some reason.

[BeerMoney]

You're wrong dude.

[BusterStacks]

[ QUOTE ]
sad how this thread got hijacked just because the first guy who responded seems to want to jump on the christian-bashing wagon.

anyway, i seriously have no porn on my computer for some reason.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh, I think it was worth it to see how retarded wacki could be in subsequent threads. I mean really, this topic wasn't that interesting to begin with, but the rediculous assertions and the ensuing arguments were enough to make it worth checking.

[daryn]

i both hear what wacki is saying, and disagree with him i think.

i think most christians don't have a problem with porn. i would never say "vast majority".

the thing is, there's a big difference between your average roman catholic family and those fundamentalist clowns you see all over tv and politics.

[BusterStacks]

I agree, I was raised catholic and went to catholic school for 12 years. Hence, why I'm not catholic.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
Those musta been some interesting fireside chats, in your parents' home, I gotta say!

[/ QUOTE ]

Not just home, but youth group, church, CCD (religious education), and just about everywhere else that is related to religion. It is my opinion that the whole point of religion is to promote good behaviors into people while minimizing the bad ones. That's it! And religion does a very good job of this.

As time goes on I find more and more very intriguing things about the Bible. Everyone thinks that it is a sin to lie. I'm not so sure about this. The most important moral rules of Christianity are centered around the ten commandments and they are worded very carefully.

Exodus 20:16"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

A lot of people think that means do not lie. I'm not so certain. I read it as do not lie to people in a way that is harmfull to them. If you lie to protect/help a neighbor, that is ok. A lot of people disagree with me though. I usually use little tests like these to see if a religious person is a nut of not. I've got about whole mitfull of them and you start asking questions like these and if they won't even listen to those that say it might be possible that the Bible is ok with lying, you know they are blind and religious nut!



In the Jewish religion, they can't eat pork and have to have Kosher foods. This is left over from the days where there is no refrigeration. It seems to me that alot of the rules in religion were added because people saw patterns of behavior that were harmfull. They didn't know why eating pork was bad, so they just made it a sin. (my analysis) There is a lot of this in the religion. Some of the rules are outdated, some of them aren't easy to understand, but most of them make a ton of sense. Even if you aren't religious (I can't stand a lot of the mumbo jumbo and ceremonies) historical analysis of religion and it's ability to affect people really is a fascinating subject.

[ QUOTE ]
What was your family's favorite video to watch together, "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre" ?

[/ QUOTE ]

My dad doesn't like off the wall movies. He likes movies like Tora Tora Tora, Glory, Bridge to Far, Das BOOT, etc. Badically anything that is non-fiction. He did like 5th element and LOTR though.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
i both hear what wacki is saying, and disagree with him i think.

i think most christians don't have a problem with porn. i would never say "vast majority".


[/ QUOTE ]
I'm glad you atleast think what I am saying isn't complete bullshit. I have just been suprised in the past by how many people who are uncomfortable with talking about anything having to do with porn either have their own collection or would never harshly judge someone that did. My dad is one of those people that is very uncomfortable with talking about porn. Yet he has his own collection, and he helped save a mans job that got caught surfing porn websites at work. So even if some of these people didn't like it, most of them wouldn't go out of their way to stop it. So, in effect, they are neutral. I still would be very suprised and even shocked if 30% of male christians would support banning Playboy. The situation is too complex to put into a single sentence.

[ QUOTE ]
the thing is, there's a big difference between your average roman catholic family and those fundamentalist clowns you see all over tv and politics.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, those guys are a little odd.