99 versus mega-fish

[dfscott]

Early in a 10-person, single table, home tourney. Everyone is still at roughly 1000 chips, blinds are 20/40 (2nd level).

I'm on the button with 99.

4 limpers to me, I raise to t160, BB calls and one MP limper calls.

Now, the two people that remained in the pot are mega-fish. That is, they will call down with anything and bet any pair, but hardly ever raise (BB had been last to act on the river in an earlier hand and had checked the nut flush) and never, ever fold.

Flop (t580): J34 rainbow

MP bets 50, I call, BB calls.

Turn (t730): 7 (two of a suit, but I have none of that suit)

MP bets 50, I call, BB calls.

River (t880): 3 (no flush possibility)

MP checks, I check, BB checks.

I was totally lost here -- I felt like pushing a lot of money in could win me a lot but it could also lose me a lot. Does anyone fold this on the flop or take a stab somewhere along the way? I would normally fold this pre-flop, but there were a ton of unraised family pots to this point. With more experienced opponents, I would probably raise the flop to see how they react, but I know these guys are calling with whatever they have.

[smartalecc5]

its kinda impossible to say with such erratic people as mega-fish. You simply have no idea what they could be playing.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
its kinda impossible to say with such erratic people as mega-fish. You simply have no idea what they could be playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. So, what do you do? Do you throw away a hand like this pre-flop because it's too this early marginal? Do you dump it on the flop because you missed flopping your set? Or do you bet hard because you have most of the hands out there beat?

[housenuts]

if you know you're gonna get callers you lose your fold equity preflop. which means you have to play this for set value and just call.

then on the flop you check/fold because with that many in the pot someone probably hit the jack

[Virox]

[ QUOTE ]
I would normally fold this pre-flop,

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold preflop with low blinds, on the button with several limpers?
I limp every time for set value, it's not even close!

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would normally fold this pre-flop,

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold preflop with low blinds, on the button with several limpers?
I limp every time for set value, it's not even close!

[/ QUOTE ]

That was why I said normally.

[TheDrone]

Please give a common scenario where you normally fold 99 preflop. This seems super tight to me. And if you are really that tight, then I am really confused why you raised after so many limpers knowing that you would get calls. You cannot ask for a better situation to limp 99 and play for the huge implied odds against calling stations if you hit your set.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
Please give a common scenario where you normally fold 99 preflop. This seems super tight to me. And if you are really that tight, then I am really confused why you raised after so many limpers knowing that you would get calls. You cannot ask for a better situation to limp 99 and play for the huge implied odds against calling stations if you hit your set.

[/ QUOTE ]

I fold most pocket pairs smaller than Tens in EP & MP in the early rounds. I have two main worries: I'll get raised pre-flop -- I would have to dump to any sizable raise (>3BB).

My other fear is that I'd flop an overpair, bet it hard, and get sucked out on the later streets.

Again, maybe I'm too timid, but that's the way I've been playing.

[ChrisV]

Don't raise 99 preflop, just call. Your scared play after the flop is a function of not wanting to risk much money on a hand that isn't even top pair, vs guys who might have anything. This is understandable and is a good reason not to cram money in the pot preflop.

I'm not sure if we're LITERALLY talking about people who never fold here, but in any case I'm raising the turn, to 250 say. It seems pretty clear at this point that you have the best hand. If either of them call just check down the river.

You shouldn't be folding small pairs preflop at low blinds. If you're worried about losing a pile of money with overpairs, just don't bet them so hard postflop. If these people are so terrible that the whole table is drawing at you with random cards, just wait for big pairs and sets and crush them with those.