WPF $300 NL hand- KK, what do ya do?

Level 1, blinds at $10-$25, all started with T1500. I have T1475.

Player on my right, 3 left of the BB brings it in for $75. I look down to see to black Kings. I raise to $275. Player on my left hesitates a moment and cold calls. All fold to player on my right who now calls $200 additional. Flop comes 5,5,3-two diamonds.


Player on my right checks, I think back to all 20 hands played so far. I put player one on a small pair. Player on my left has shown 3 hands. KJ, QJ, J,9 all unsuited from various positions. I put him on no real hand and bet $800. He says something about going home and calls. Player one folds. Turn is an ACE! What do I do now? I can't really put him on any huge hand but a big ace is definately possible. I check, he checks. Now I put him on a medium pair or KQ. The river is a 10. No flush possible. Before I can act, he throws his remaining $310 out. The dealer reminds him that I have not acted. I check, he bets. Now what do I do?

I think for a while and decide that he's either smarter than he looks and slow played aces, or is truly lost and has 10,10. I muck my KK face up.


Any comments on the play? Should I have called the remaining amount.If I call and lose I have only $95.


Is there any scenario that you can think of that could allow me to go all-in on turn?


Results to follow.

Glen,


I like your play of the hand up to the river. I don't see how you can pass getting about 7-1 when you're really not sure ! Your opponent appears to have shown one sign of weakness (going home comment) and one of strength (going all-in out of turn). Simple question, which one's real and which one's acting ? Unless I'm very sure I'm just going to pay him off. Basically I would also check the turn, hoping to escape with a showdown if he has a weak Ace, but I'm probably going to pay it off if he bets turn or river for just 300.


Andy.


PS And personally I would never expose my cards after such a fold.

Is it possible that the bet out of turn means that 1) he knows he is beat and 2) he expects you to bet, and so this is the absolute only chance he has of winning the pot ?


Andy.

Remember Andy, if I make the call on the river and I'm beat, I'm basically done with this event, no re-buys. If I muck, I still have 400 and a good shot at rebuilding. Fossilman will attest that I have a great track record at getting back up off the felt when wounded. Those were my mind thoughts at the time.


Regarding the show of the fold, a couple of reasons. Generally I don't show much, if any. But I do believe in the occasional advertisement, not for the table but for one problem opponent, generally if he/she is on my left. I thought that if my guess of 10,10 turned out to be right, and I had any shot at rebuilding, I'd want this idiot to respect my big raises. Also, I really needed to know what I was mucking to, for future plays. If he was indeed on AA and played it so well, him being on my left for the entire event might prove troublesome. As a insignificant final reason... Kenny Chatamala, a past, multiple event winner and a huge stakes player from the Foxwoods area had just been moved to our table. He knows me as a dealer, yet I have never played with him. As a dealer, you look for these opportunities to gain some respect that is generally not given to us dealers.


More to follow.....

I might be wrong to do so, but I'd make the call on the river.


And I wouldn't show.


And I hate the bet of 800 on the flop. Why bet 800 when it leaves you with only T400? If you're going to bet that much, bet if all. Otherwise, bet less so if you gain information indicating a fold is smart, you have more left in your stack.


Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

I must admit, in that situation (hand alone) but in Tuesday nite event or even later in this event, I'd almost always call. 7 or 8 to one are huge odds, and from a good player, that all-in bet would have been mandatory for most. But it was so early in this event. I waited all year to play in this one, I just didn't wan't to exit that way. All year long I've been getting hammered by 2 outers. I felt that I was in that situation again. I just wanted a chance to get further along. I haven't told you all what the guys was holding, but at the table I was 99% sure of what I thought he was holding. I was that convinced I couldn't win. But I agree that in almost all other situations of those odds, etc. I'd call.


As far as the 800 bet, you're right, why not the rest. Quite frankly, I wasn't thinking at all about what percentage of my stack the bet was, I was simply making a pot sized bet. That was a slip on my part...always know where ou stand, I know better. I figured he could not call without a 5, extremely unlikely, or AA.

A slim possibility. I never dreamed he'd call. I didn't really want a call, because of the 2 flush, and I didn't think anyone would risk that much, that early, on a draw.


When the result is posted, a couple of new possibilities are going to appear for discussion. More on the 800 bet then.


Again, on the fold, showing the hand was simply an attempt to elicit the return favor from him. Most newbies, if he was one, will do this. I really wanted to know if my read was correct. If he failed to show, then I would have been convinced that I laid down a winner.


More later, those were just my thoughts at the time.

Glen,


I'm very interested in your final point. It seems to me from your posts that you are a good player. If someone thinks you can't play because you're a dealer or for any other reason, why wise him up ? OK if he's any good he'll work it out soon enough, but you may be able to profit in the mean time.


Maybe I have misread what you meant exactly but a lot of the time, in general I would prefer that people have a low estimation of my game for £££ purposes. Most people prefer the reverse for ego purposes :-).


Andy.

It is hard to put someone on a 5 based on the pre-flop betting. So I would likely put it all-in on the flop. Once you get called on the flop I wouldn't be overly worried about the Ace. If he has slowplayed aces you are dead. I can't see how the ace would help him. Go all-in on the turn.


Once he goes all-in on the river the only winning hands he most likely have is 33 or TT. The question is if he has JJ or QQ does he play any differently? I probably call although I would have been all-in on the flop or the turn and not have had to make the decision.


Ken Poklitar

Ok, so by my showing my big laydown, this newbie (now I know for sure) says "Wow, I thought I might be beat!" and shows me his 10,10.


I really need some more imput about the flop bet. I remember thinking about going all in but I thought, at the time, that I would only get called if I was beat, meaning he slow played AA. By betting 800, I thought a reasonable player would lay down any draw and might call with JJ or QQ, which I want. Even 10,10 is where I want him to be. But if he re-popped me and I was convinced he was on AA I could still get away with a chance to rebuild.


Most of you have said that the only play was to go all-in on flop. Was it, or is my thinking all wrong here?


On hindsight a bet on the turn might have won it for me since he was new and might have me on a big Ace, but by the same token, being dumb, might he not be on an ace too? He made some comment when it appeared that "there's your winner" but I wasn't sure which way to take it. Your thoughts?


Keep playing hard! Shit, now I gotta wait 'till next year to get heads up with Daniel!