PDA

View Full Version : 4th street semibluff raise


bigmac366
11-19-2004, 12:47 PM
***** Hand History for Game 1196754538 *****
0.5/1 SevenStudHiGameTable (Limit) - Fri Nov 19 11:34:16 EST 2004
Table True lies (Real Money)
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: Ally_G ( $34)
Seat 2: revpokerboy ( $31.25)
Seat 3: bigmac366 ( $18.25)
Seat 4: etbetts ( $21.5)
Seat 5: pporong ( $82.5)
Seat 6: erinsdadd ( $23)
Seat 7: Cajje ( $10.25)
Seat 8: sugarn ( $46.5)
Ally_G posts ante (0.25)
revpokerboy posts ante (0.25)
bigmac366 posts ante (0.25)
etbetts posts ante (0.25)
pporong posts ante (0.25)
erinsdadd posts ante (0.25)
Cajje posts ante (0.25)
sugarn is sitting out.
** Dealing **
Dealt to Ally_G [ 9s ]
Dealt to revpokerboy [ 7h ]
Dealt to bigmac366 [ 6d, 8h ]
Dealt to bigmac366 [ 7s ]
Dealt to etbetts [ Kh ]
Dealt to pporong [ Th ]
Dealt to erinsdadd [ 2h ]
Dealt to Cajje [ 2d ]
Cajje bring-ins (0.25)
Ally_G folds.
revpokerboy calls (0.25)
bigmac366 calls (0.25)
etbetts calls (0.25)
pporong completes (0.5)
erinsdadd calls (0.5)
Cajje calls (0.25)
revpokerboy calls (0.25)
bigmac366 calls (0.25)
etbetts calls (0.25)
** Dealing Fourth street **
Dealt to revpokerboy [ 8d ]
Dealt to bigmac366 [ 5d ]
Dealt to etbetts [ 2c ]
Dealt to pporong [ 3h ]
Dealt to erinsdadd [ Tc ]
Dealt to Cajje [ Kd ]
etbetts checks.
pporong bets (0.5)
erinsdadd calls (0.5)
Cajje calls (0.5)
revpokerboy calls (0.5)
bigmac366 raises (1) to 1
etbetts calls (1)
pporong folds.
erinsdadd calls (0.5)
Cajje calls (0.5)
revpokerboy calls (0.5)
** Dealing Fifth street **
Dealt to revpokerboy [ Ts ]
Dealt to bigmac366 [ Jd ]
Dealt to etbetts [ As ]
Dealt to erinsdadd [ Qh ]
Dealt to Cajje [ Js ]
etbetts checks.
erinsdadd checks.
Cajje checks.
revpokerboy bets (1)
bigmac366 calls (1)
etbetts calls (1)
erinsdadd calls (1)
Cajje calls (1)
** Dealing Sixth street **
Dealt to revpokerboy [ 3s ]
Dealt to bigmac366 [ 4c ]
Dealt to etbetts [ 5c ]
Dealt to erinsdadd [ 6c ]
Dealt to Cajje [ 8s ]
etbetts checks.
erinsdadd checks.
Cajje bets (1)
revpokerboy calls (1)
bigmac366 calls (1)
etbetts calls (1)
erinsdadd calls (1)
** Dealing River **
Dealt to bigmac366 [ 4h ]
etbetts checks.
erinsdadd checks.
Cajje checks.
revpokerboy checks.
bigmac366 bets (1)
etbetts calls (1)
erinsdadd folds.
Cajje folds.
revpokerboy folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: $21.25 | Rake: $1
Ally_G balance $33.75, lost $0.25 (folded) [ XX XX 9s ]
revpokerboy balance $27.5, lost $3.75 (folded) [ XX XX 7h 8d Ts 3s XX ]
bigmac366 balance $34.75, bet $4.75, collected $21.25, net +$16.5 [ 6d 8h 7s 5d Jd 4c 4h ] [ a straight, four to eight -- 8h,7s,6d,5d,4c ]
etbetts balance $16.75, lost $4.75 [ Ah Qc Kh 2c As 5c Kc ] [ two pairs, aces and kings -- Ah,As,Kh,Kc,Qc ]
pporong balance $81.25, lost $1.25 (folded) [ XX XX Th 3h ]
erinsdadd balance $19.25, lost $3.75 (folded) [ XX XX 2h Tc Qh 6c XX ]
Cajje balance $6.5, lost $3.75 (folded) [ XX XX 2d Kd Js 8s XX ]
sugarn balance $46.5, sits out


i was wondering what some of the veteran stud players thought about how i played this hand, specifically the 4th street semibluff raise. i justified doing it because i felt i had an edge in pot equity. i'm new to 7 stud though and trying to improve my play.
P.S. sorry about the crappy hand history, i'm new to all of this

captZEEbo1
11-22-2004, 02:24 PM
I think you should raise on 6th street, as many players are still willing to call doubles bets on 6th street, b/c the pot is getting pretty big.

On 4th street, if I get a 4-to the flush, I'll almost always raise in position. If I can many people calling extra bets for my flush, that has to be optimal. I'm pretty sure this is correct strategy. Not so much as a semi-bluff, but just juicing the pot.

Andy B
11-22-2004, 02:49 PM
Don't post hand histories. They're hard to read. Sometimes I'll wade through them, but I just don't feel like it right now. Post your hand as a narrative. There's a converter floating around, but I think it's even better if you write it out yourself, as I don't think you need to specify that this or that specific player folded on third street--it should be obvious when they're not in the hand on fourth.

jon_1van
11-22-2004, 03:48 PM
Party Poker 0.5/1 (0.25 ante) Seven Card Stud High (7 handed)

3rd Street: (3.50 SB) Hero is Seat 3 with 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif<font color="blue">(7 players)</font>Seat 1: xx xx 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif
Seat 2: xx xx 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif
Hero: 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif
Seat 4: xx xx K/images/graemlins/heart.gif
Seat 5: xx xx T/images/graemlins/heart.gif
Seat 6: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif
Seat 7: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Action: Seat 7 brings it in for $0.25, Seat 1 folds, Seat 2 calls, Hero calls, Seat 4 calls, Seat 5 completes, Seat 6 calls, Seat 7 calls, Seat 2 calls, Hero calls, Seat 4 calls.

4th Street: (9.50 SB) Hero catches 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
Seat 2: xx xx 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Hero: 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Seat 4: xx xx K/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/club.gif
Seat 5: xx xx T/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif
Seat 6: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif
Seat 7: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Action: Seat 4 checks, <font color="CC3333">Seat 5 bets</font>, Seat 6 calls, Seat 7 calls, Seat 2 calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Seat 4 calls, Seat 5 folds, Seat 6 calls, Seat 7 calls, Seat 2 calls.

5th Street: (10.25 BB) Hero catches J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
Seat 2: xx xx 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif
Hero: 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Seat 4: xx xx K/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/spade.gif
Seat 6: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif
Seat 7: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif

Action: Seat 4 checks, Seat 6 checks, Seat 7 checks, <font color="CC3333">Seat 2 bets</font>, Hero calls, Seat 4 calls, Seat 6 calls, Seat 7 calls.

6th Street: (15.25 BB) Hero catches 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
Seat 2: xx xx 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif
Hero: 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/club.gif
Seat 4: xx xx K/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/club.gif
Seat 6: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif
Seat 7: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif

Action: Seat 4 checks, Seat 6 checks, <font color="CC3333">Seat 7 bets</font>, Seat 2 calls, Hero calls, Seat 4 calls, Seat 6 calls.

7th Street: (20.25 BB) Hero catches 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
Seat 4 checks, Seat 6 checks, Seat 7 checks, Seat 2 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Seat 4 calls, Seat 6 folds, Seat 7 folds, Seat 2 folds.

Final Pot: 22.25 BB

converter link ::

http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi

Andy B
11-22-2004, 04:00 PM
Much better. Why not raise sixth?

Spook
11-22-2004, 04:06 PM
I was going to say that playing a three straight that low isn't recommended, but the ante is so high it should be played? Then it should be played aggressively.

MVicuna
11-22-2004, 05:01 PM
Hi,

6th is a must raise. You need to charge those 2 pairs and gutshots the maximum to suckout on you. Nobody's folding 6th into such a huge pot with any hope of making the winning hand.

Also, baby str8's need to drag huge pots like this to compensate for missing them AND all those times they hit their redraws on you. I wouldn't doubt baby str8's are barely profitable.

Later,
MarkV.

patrick dicaprio
11-22-2004, 06:56 PM
why raise on fourth street? i am not saying it is wrong mind you but i was curious as to your thought process. i would raise here for value hoping to get called if i were raising here. a semibluff will never work since you have a large pot and multiple players. you should never semibluff in this situation but should reserve it for when you can win the pot. free card? OK value raise? OK. semibluff? ill advised.

Pat

timmer
11-23-2004, 12:34 AM
Wow what a hand history whack it down so next time wont ya?

Well I dont like the 4th street play so much as your secondary outs likely wont win. and it kind of defines your hand a bit and you do have a suited King behind you and a suited T betting. But it kept etbetts from raising 5th when the Ace hits and could be keeping the diamonds from wagering strongly. I dont know why but it seems to had that effect so thats a good thing. But I still dont like it becuse it was made recklessly. there is danger all around but sometimes that is the best time to play back (third level thinking)

but 6th street looks like a disaster but it isnt

ths board looks like this <ul type="square">

Dealt to Ally_G: - - - 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="red"> folded </font>
Dealt to pporong: - - T /images/graemlins/heart.gif 3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="red"> folded </font>
Dealt to etbetts: - - K /images/graemlins/heart.gif 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif A /images/graemlins/spade.gif 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue"> (check calling) </font>
Dealt to erinsdadd: - 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif T /images/graemlins/club.gif Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif6 /images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue"> (check calling) </font>
Dealt to Cajje: - - - -2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/spade.gif 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue"> (cold calls, check calls, then leads) </font> <font color="red"> [1] </font>
Dealt to revpokerboy: 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gifT /images/graemlins/spade.gif 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue"> Calls 4th leads 5th calls 6th </font>
Dealt to bigmac366: -[6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif]7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue"> Call, Raise , Call, Call </font> [/list]

now if you were to raise on 6th you might lose the check callers. (however it is unlikely you would lose the A's who is check calling) but you will probably get the diamonds call since he lead.

This is the only hand I would be concerned about now. But not too concerned because you have 4 diamonds dead over all 3 in your hand, 1 of which, he doesnt know and likely hasnt thought about.

So if you ponder a raise you would think you are going to lose 2 callers and get two for two rather than 4 for 1. although they may fold any way.

If you think they will. <ul type="square"> call if you flat call but will fold if you raise then you should flat call. fold if you either flat call or raise then you should raise. call two cold then you should raise. [/list] But as we see the Aces might call 2 cold vs your crappy board (see how many 68's are out?) hell he might overcall two cold. but I doubt it..so by raising here you like gain 2 two bets and lose 2 bets on the raise. you'll risk a extra bet for no gain so ... going for the overcalls is a good play

Your only clue that one of the check callers would play is etbetts AK board. But he is check calling so play for the 4:1 and go for the overcalls.

The key here is can you win the pot right now with a raise or can you get you strongest opposition to fold by raising. I dout this because he just put in a reversal.

the river really plays itself here. Although your 6th street play increases the viability of a check raise attempt on the river when conditions dictate. Here they do not.

well done.

timmer

<font color="red"> [1] this is A VERY Dangerious combination in the hands of a strong player </font>

Chris Daddy Cool
11-23-2004, 02:38 AM
Semibluffs are generally made with the intention of taking down the pot right there or pretty soon, but have outs to improve in case you do not win it there or soon. In this hand your 4th street raise has no chance at winning, so you are raising for other reasons, i.e. value or free card.

All that being said, raise 6th street. You have a straight!