River action...

[Guy McSucker]

I really can't decide how to play the river here.

Party $5/10 6-max. I have black A6o on the button. It is folded to me, I raise, the BB calls. It is his very first hand at the table and I don't have him in 'Tracker.

Flop: 9 6 2, two diamonds. BB checks, I bet, he calls.

Turn: offsuit J. He checks again. I bet, intending to fold to a raise or take a free showdown. He calls. (Is this a good line for me here?)

River: ace of diamonds. He checks.

Now, I'd planned to take a freebie here, but I just improved. On the other hand the most obvious draw just came in. On the other other hand, he's checked again. What to do?

I bet.

He check-raises.

Now what?

Guy.

[Guido]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif why did you plan to take a free river? I think this is a value bet a lot of the time.

Whatever you do don't fold the river. There are a lot of people who call A high down on a flop like this. You shouldn't look at these hands with your logic but think the way fish do (if they do that).

Guido

[ToneLoc]

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why did you plan to take a free river? I think this is a value bet a lot of the time.

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This would really be thin betting IMO. If he was on the flush draw he is not going to call, maybe he has a weak pair or a 9, or a Jack-Rag, or a pair of 77? Bottom line is what do you think he is going to call with that does not beat you on the river?

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Whatever you do don't fold the river. There are a lot of people who call A high down on a flop like this. You shouldn't look at these hands with your logic but think the way fish do (if they do that).


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Agreed, call as fast as you can here. If heshows you the flsuh, good for him. Often he has just spiked a pair of ace on the river!

[Guido]

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This would really be thin betting IMO.

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A lot of bad players will call any ace, a pair of two's, a pair of sixes. Even hands like KQ will call a lot of the time. Yes you lose to a pair of nines or jacks but I don't think he has one of them. He would have raised somewhere. A pair of nines is the most likely. He might even fold a pair of nines...
I agree it's not a big value bet but it is one IMO.

Guido

[Scotch78]

There's a line in TPAP that I really like, about opponents hurting us most when they put us to tough decisions, and getting check-raised on this river creates that kind of dilemma. That's not reason enough to check behind, but it is an additional factor worth considering IMO. The other thing I would think about before betting this river is what additional hands you now beat. Since many of those hands, i.e. Jx or 9x, would likely have thrown in a bet or raise somewhere, I'd discount the chances of him holding one. He's also very likely to check-raise with any hand better than yours, so betting this river is pretty much risking 2 BBs for 1. I check behind.

Scott

[Guy McSucker]

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Since many of those hands, i.e. Jx or 9x, would likely have thrown in a bet or raise somewhere, I'd discount the chances of him holding one.


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I kind of agree.

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He's also very likely to check-raise with any hand better than yours


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But what would those be? We're looking for hands that beat my aces-up which would not have raised earlier in the hand. The flush, yes, since it was not a raiseworthy hand until now; what else?

And how likely is the flush to go for a check-raise? I can see the third diamond same as he can.

Unless you can think of another hand that

- beats my aces up
- would not have raised earlier in the hand
- thinks that a river check-raise with a three-flush arriving is a good idea

then we're looking at the parlay that he has both hit the flush and wants to C-R it, versus the chance that he has a crappy pair or an ace and will call my bet.

I am still at a loss here.

Guy.

[Benjamin]

I agree with those that say it's an easy bet/call the checkraise. Bet because you will be called by any number of single pair hands. Call the checkraise because it's entirely possible he hit an ace, and I think it's also entirely possible to see a variaty of other hands that you beat there when he is using the ace of diamonds as a scare card to bluff you.

B.

[ToneLoc]

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I am still at a loss here.

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Come on, no way you can fold, between the crapy ace raise, the Ace-two raise, the possible flush/ace bluff raise from a guy holding some KQ...

[Scotch78]

Sorry, my language was a little unclear. When I said he was likely to check-raise with a hand that beat you, I meant that once you had bet the river, he would raise with pretty much any hand that beats you. I wasn't saying that he would specifically decide to check-raise, though I think check-raising with a flush is very possible since A) you haven't stopped betting yet and B) bad players don't anticipate whether their opponent will bet, they just think "check-raise because I have a flush".

Scott

[Guy McSucker]

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I agree with those that say it's an easy bet/call the checkraise.


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I think I do too. I am certain that betting is right, and I can't stomach folding, so...

How 'bout if I don't improve on the river?

Guy.

[Guy McSucker]

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When I said he was likely to check-raise with a hand that beat you, I meant that once you had bet the river, he would raise with pretty much any hand that beats you. I wasn't saying that he would specifically decide to check-raise


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I don't understand this. You're suggesting that he might have a hand better than AA66, check, then see me bet, and only then decide to raise, without having planned a check-raise? And all this with a hand he didn't ant to bet or raise previously...

However, this makes sense:

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bad players don't anticipate whether their opponent will bet, they just think "check-raise because I have a flush".


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I always forget that these guys aren't actually considering what I might be holding or how I might play it. Thanks for the reminder!

Guy.

[Scotch78]

Results time?

Scott

[Guy McSucker]

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Results time?


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Since you insist... /images/graemlins/wink.gif

He had 66 for the flopped set.

Guy.