The Bike is full of retards

[private joker]

So I'm playing live 1/2 at the Bike today, waiting for a 2/4 seat to open up. I'm not in the hand, but watching as play gets down to heads-up on the river, and both players check. The final board is:

A9933

Player A turns over J8. Player B turns over K6. The dealer pushes the pot to Player B and gathers the cards to stick 'em in the auto-shuffle. I speak up.

"Wait! That's a chop! Two pair, ace kicker on the board."

The dealer responds as if she's explaining poker to a newbie.

"He had king kicker, he had jack! King play!"
"No, they both had 2 pair with an ace kicker, so they have to play the board, and it's a chop."

I expect to get some help from the other players, especially the guy with J8 who just lost half the pot which was rightfully his. But nobody speaks up -- in fact, they echo what the dealer said. "His king kicker played! He had a king and the other guy had a jack! He wins!"

I try to explain slowly again to the dealer and the table. One more time. "They both play the board. The board has two pairs on it with an ace. Their kicker does not play because it's the sixth card. The best five card hand is on the board. It's a chop."

The dealer shakes her head and continues with the game. I gave up because I didn't really care -- this is a 1/2 game, I'm not in the hand, and I'll be leaving shortly. But I mean come on! I expect the players to be morons, especially at that limit, but the dealer? This was inexcusable. Since I didn't care that much, I let it go, and laughed it off. Wasn't worth getting the floorman or anything.

Rick N. -- if you're out there reading this, what gives? The dealer's name was Linda Chan. Tell her to go back to poker school. I'd be pissed if I was robbed of a pot because of that kind of idiocy.

[Klepton]

el diablo wrote a response about LA cardrooms once that was quite hilarious, regarding how dealers favor regulars. I also would have said something, but after the guy with J8 doesn't show any sign of care, move on.

brings up a funny story

2/4 horrible table and i had KQ and after the board read 7KQAA. I checked the river and the opponent showed K10. I said "nice hand, chop it" and the dealer (a friend who knew me as a regular back then) told the clueless opponent that "because i tied the board, i getthe whole pot." Needless to say I tipped him about half the pot as I got up later that night.

[Randy_Refeld]

At 1-2 (and 2-4) you willhave both dealers and players that are new to poker. It was probably inappropiate to post the dealer's name.

RR

[bigfishead]

[ QUOTE ]
It was probably inappropiate to post the dealer's name.

RR

[/ QUOTE ]

here here

[theantelope]

Yes, that's really "funny." Oh wait, I mean "unethical."

[theantelope]

Seriously. You could have PM'd if you really cared that much.

[Tyler Durden]

What's inappropriate about posting the dealer's name? Readers of this forum should be aware before sitting in a game that she's dealing. I see nothing wrong with it.

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
What's inappropriate about posting the dealer's name?

[/ QUOTE ]

Most likely she is a new dealer and will be able to read hands within a week or two. Also nothing is gained by posting this on the net. I could see a case for posting her name if she was a pit dealer where you could pick a table based on dealer.

RR

[bpb]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What's inappropriate about posting the dealer's name?

[/ QUOTE ]

Most likely she is a new dealer and will be able to read hands within a week or two.

[/ QUOTE ]

I went to get an oil change the other day. The guy drained the old oil but forget to put in any new oil. Totally wrecked the engine. But I'm not going to post the name of the garage. They're probably new, and in a week or two, will probably figure out how to do an oil change.

[Randy_Refeld]

Ummm, he already pointed out that it is at the Bike. Does the name of the dealer help you in any way??

RR

[MisterKing]

[ QUOTE ]
Ummm, he already pointed out that it is at the Bike. Does the name of the dealer help you in any way??

RR

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh for chrissake. Has the world gone so PC that we can't point out an obvious professional mistake from time to time and discuss it? That the error was made at the Bike is relevant. That it was made in a 1/2 game is also relevant. And here's the thing: for other 2+2 players that might be playing there in the future, the dealer's name is ALSO relevant. We're not ATMs here, my friend. We don't have spare cash to just flush away on incorrect rulings, as nice as it would be for this not to be the case.

Sure she may be new, but we can all take that into account. As I understand it, nobody is calling for her to be fired. Nobody wants her shot or robbed or shortchanged in tips. A simple error was pointed out, and one that may be relevant to the playing decisions of people participating in this board.

So cut out the righteous indignation already, please. As a wise character named Walter said in The Big Lebowski, "dude, this is not Nam. There are rules."

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
Has the world gone so PC that we can't point out an obvious professional mistake from time to time and discuss it

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, I have never been accused of being PC before, I have been accused of the opposite. I still don't see the point of posting her name. If you wanted to call someoen at the Bike and tell them about knowing her name would be of use, but I do no see what use someone will make of knowing her name. Do you plan to walk for half an hour when she comes to your table? If you are the sort of player that keeps their cards until they know they are beat the dealing not being able to read the board doesn't make much of a difference.

RR

[youtalkfunny]

I'm laughing at all the guys with psuedonyms for screen names, telling the one guy who uses his real name, that posting somebody else's name is no big deal.

All you guys who think it's no big deal, please post your name and place of employment here.

[shant]

My real name is Shant.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
Rick N. -- if you're out there reading this, what gives? The dealer's name was Linda Chan. Tell her to go back to poker school. I'd be pissed if I was robbed of a pot because of that kind of idiocy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just got in after a very long day that started with taking care of personal obligations starting in the early morning and included putting in over ten hours at the Bike so I'm more than a bit tired. Anyway, I'll try to post a few thoughts.

1. I've seen this type of mistake made many times at various casinos and card clubs over the years. In every case I (or another player) was able to find a way to stop the action and set things right. (As an aside, I've never had a hand killed by a dealer in over twenty years of play - I learned to protect my hand early.)

2. I will forward a link of this thread to Todd Bleak, the dealer trainer at the Bike. A return to poker school won't be necessary, Todd will take care of it personally with Linda as he performs constant training and takes pride in his work.

3. The title of your thread was a bit much, but it did get my attention. That said, I believe that the Bike has a staff that is generally competent and tries very hard to do a good job.

4. Was it appropriate to post the dealers name? As others have said, a PM would have worked regarding the name. I'm not sure I know Linda (she probably deals in a rotation of games I don't play). She could be a very competent and promising dealer who made an innocent mistake. Now she has been subjected to public ridicule, and sometimes that can result in a very bad outcome.

Anyway, I've got to get some ZZZ's but I'll forward this to Todd before I go to bed.

Regards,

Rick

[Paul2432]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ummm, he already pointed out that it is at the Bike. Does the name of the dealer help you in any way??

RR

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh for chrissake. Has the world gone so PC that we can't point out an obvious professional mistake from time to time and discuss it? That the error was made at the Bike is relevant. That it was made in a 1/2 game is also relevant. And here's the thing: for other 2+2 players that might be playing there in the future, the dealer's name is ALSO relevant. We're not ATMs here, my friend. We don't have spare cash to just flush away on incorrect rulings, as nice as it would be for this not to be the case.

Sure she may be new, but we can all take that into account. As I understand it, nobody is calling for her to be fired. Nobody wants her shot or robbed or shortchanged in tips. A simple error was pointed out, and one that may be relevant to the playing decisions of people participating in this board.

So cut out the righteous indignation already, please. As a wise character named Walter said in The Big Lebowski, "dude, this is not Nam. There are rules."

[/ QUOTE ]

One possibility overlooked in this thread is that the OP may simply be mistaken. Maybe he misread the hand. I know it has happened to me that I was certain I had a particular hand (say a flush) when in fact when I turned my cards up I had something else. That the dealer as well as the entire table disagreed with the OP I think suggests at least a possibility of a mistake.

The reason posting the name is unfair is because the dealer is not here to defend herself. She cannot say, "no, the board was A9T33". Instead her reputation is smeared behind her back.

Paul

[drewjustdrew]

I think there comes a question of the poster's credibility, though. What if this is her ex boyfriend who wants her to have some grief at her job. We do not know this poster personally and can't vouch for him.

Anyway, you should observe actions of all dealers regardless. Otherwise you are not protected. Pointing out a bad dealer is also pointless as there are many already.

[Rick Nebiolo]

Got my 4.5 hours of sleep and my best friend (a 25 year pro who plays yellow and brown chip) just came over for a morning cigar and chat before he heads out "to work".

I previously wrote: "I've seen this type of mistake made many times at various casinos and card clubs over the years. In every case I (or another player) was able to find a way to stop the action and set things right."

He didn't see any big problem with naming the name but he also has seen this mistake dozens of times over the years. He never saw a situation where a player or player(s) trying to correct it couldn't stop the action and correct the mistake.

Regards,

Rick

[andyfox]

This happens quite a bit, especially when there are two pair on the board.

I saw an even more bizarre situation at Commerce last week. Two players in seats 4 and 5 are left on the river, which goes check-check. The board is J-T-9-7-6, no flush possible. Seat 4 turns over A-Q and seat 5 turns over A-9. Dealer says, "straight," and starts to push the chips to seat 4. As she does so, the two players' four cards get mixed up together. (She didn't kill the hands before pushing the chips.) A bunch of us say you're giving the pot to the wrong player.

Now the cards are jumbled, but she can see there was no straight. She now says, "pair of nines" and still gives the pot to the wrong player. Again we tell her. Seat 4 now says "I had A-9." Seat 5 is totally confused. We say, no, you had A-Q, seat 5 had A-9. Seat 4 takes the pot. Seat 5 is advised by the rest of us to call for the floorman and have them review the tape, he had the winning hand, A-9. He says no, seat 4 is a "nice guy," let him have it. (The pot was in the neighborhood of $320.)

One of the strangest things I've ever seen at the poker table.

[PokerBob]

Agreed. It isn't easy enough to beat the morons at low limit, now you have to STEAL from them? Ugh.

[Rick Nebiolo]

I already exchanged a couple of cordial PM's with private joker and just wanted to let him and you guys know the status regarding this incident. The following is a summary of an email I received from the Bike's Dealer Trainer Todd Bleak (printed with Todd's permission):

Todd read the thread and spoke with Linda regarding this hand on Friday night. He didn't give her too much information because he wanted to see if she could remember the hand with minimal prompting. Todd indicated that Linda seemed quite clear on the hand and insisted that the unpaired card was a ten. Linda even recalled the table number that she was dealing at the time. Todd was satisfied that, at least in her mind, the card in question was a ten.

Todd did tell the dealer that when the reading of a hand is disputed, to slow things down and make it clear to all which is the best hand and why.

Anyway, thanks to all for your suport and understanding and to Todd for following up.

Regards,

Rick

[italianstang]

Thats cheating, poker gods are gonna f*ck with you real bad because of that one.