Limit Stud/8 Sit & Go

[greenage]

Did I lose my mind on this hand?

PokerStars Sit & Go Tournament, Limit 7 Card Stud Hi/Lo, Buy-In: $5.00/$0.50

Level VIII (300/600) – Ante (50)

It’s down to three handed.

Seat 2: Hero (2951 in chips)
Seat 4: (4667 in chips)
Seat 5: (4382 in chips)

The villain in Seat 4 had been playing tight, maybe even weak tight.

3rd Street (.5 SB) - Hero is Seat 2 with 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)

Hero: 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif
Seat 4: X X A/images/graemlins/spade.gif
Seat 5: X X 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif

Action: Seat 5 brings it in for 100, Hero raises, Seat 4 re-raises, Seat 5 folds, Hero calls.

4th Street (4.8 SB) Hero catches T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)

Hero: 5/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif
Seat 4: X X A/images/graemlins/spade.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif

I think Seat 4’s aggression did register with me (particularly because he had been playing so tight), but I was blinded by my flush draw.

Action: Seat 4 bets, Hero raises, Seat 4 re-raises, Hero caps, Seat 4 calls.

5th Street (6.4 BB) Hero catches J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)

Hero: 5/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Seat 4: X X A/images/graemlins/spade.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Action: Seat 4 bets, Hero raises 501 and is all-in, Seat 4 calls.

6th Street (10.09 BB) Hero catches Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players, Hero all-in)

Hero: 5/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Seat 4: X X A/images/graemlins/spade.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif

7th Street (10.09 BB) Hero catches 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players, Hero all-in)

Any comments appreciated.

TIA,
greenage

[PoorLawyer]

This is the opposite of the hand I just posted, except I didnt catch my low and they didnt catch their flush but had running aces to win. I wouldnt have pushed it so much until I caught the flush since they looked good for at least half the pot, but it is possible I play too tight.

[Nick_Foxx]

to paraphrase an amusing response in a similar thread, at least you have the aggression thing down

there is no way you should continue after 5th street as there is a good chance you will get scooped... that is, IF you had put in 1 bet on 3rd and 4th... given that you went ballistic, obviously you have to go all the way

mike

[SeppDeitrich]

I play a fair bit in these games, If you fold in this hand i think you really have to do it on 3rd street. your queen up 3-flush with a weak 2-low isn't that strong against a weak tight player's ace & re raise. Given that you see 4th street, the pot is too big for you to fold after catching your 4-flush, even when he also catches good.

[SeppDeitrich]

The reason I don't think this is so bad is because given the chip positions hero is going to be stuck in this untill the river, and he will have to call a river bet if he can beat villain's board for high, so hero will be all in at the river pretty much no matter what. that said, I think there is little value in 3-betting 4th once villain raises the first bet since you are both going to showdown no matter what.

[imported_big ben]

7-card Stud Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled outcomes
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
Qc 8c 5c 129439 165933 334063 4 68667 11513 63 0.340
As 2d Ah 288979 334063 165933 4 89920 2222 63 0.660

If the Axx had been tight, he obviously has an A in the hole. I chose a baby to go with it, but left him unsuited.
Given the chip counts and the limit level, I don't think you needed to gamble all those chips off at this point on 3rd. Although you did pick up a /images/graemlins/club.gif on 4th, it wasn't a baby- check/call call was in order there, with a fold on 5th when you blank.

[greenage]

Oh man, I almost didn’t post this after I checked the hand history and saw that my raise button had gotten stuck on 4th! But, since this was a tournament I thought I’d go ahead and see what y’all thought.

Not sure if this is or should be a consideration, but I had been somewhat card dead for awhile and this hand looked really good to me, especially 3-handed.

I had been stealing a bit from Seat 4 and was some what surprised when he played back at me on 3rd street. Should he have pushed his pair of Aces this hard?

Once I caught the 4 flush on fourth I was going to see the river. Here is the showdown:

Seat 2: Hero showed [5c 8c Qc Tc Jd Qd 6h] and lost with HI: a pair of Queens
Seat 4: Villian showed [Th Ad As 3s 8d Kc 5s] and won (6052) with HI: a pair of Aces

Thank you all for the replies. I really appreciate it and have learned much from you.

greenage

[jon_1van]

[ QUOTE ]
this hand looked really good to me, especially 3-handed

[/ QUOTE ]

Flush draws are better multihanded. Flush draws are better when they include overcards to your opponents probable pair. Flush draws are better when they will scoop (you shouldn't expect to scoop on 4th).


Shorthanded is drastically different from 8 way action

[greenage]

OK, ok, I’m starting to see.

Hey, I just won my first 7 Stud/8 tourney! You and everyone else who responded to this thread helped.

Thank you, TY!

greenage

[Andy B]

Without reading the other responses, third street is a fold. At this stage, the Ace is nearly guaranteed to raise, and he should usually take the pot so you can get on with the next hand. Your high shot and low shot are both pretty dubious. Dump it and get on to the next hand.

On fourth, you have a call. Jamming when you're behind in both directions is suicidal.

On fifth, you again have a call. You are still behind in both directions, and you could be in serious doo-doo. There was no reason to go broke on this hand.

[Andy B]

Our hero has a fold, but you're citing the worst-case scenario. I would think even a tight player would raise with a good three-card low.

[Andy B]

I don't really play on-line. Is it common for raise buttons to get stuck? I've seen players who seemed to have this problem. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

There aren't many hands that should look good when there's an Ace behind you. This wasn't one of them.

The other guy was probably right to jam with those Aces.

[greenage]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really play on-line. Is it common for raise buttons to get stuck? I've seen players who seemed to have this problem. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, it only seems to happen when I check the hand history. /images/graemlins/grin.gif I really wasn’t aware of capping 4th until then. /images/graemlins/blush.gif


[ QUOTE ]
There aren't many hands that should look good when there's an Ace behind you. This wasn't one of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I honestly thought it did, but I’m still playing way too loose and have much to learn.

TY,
greenage

[imported_big ben]

Andy is right- I should have cited more cases here with the AA2- but I disagree with him that a tight player will automatically reraise w/ a 3-card low in this situation. A low is a drawing hand, and building a big pot early in these shorthanded situations should often be avoided. Chip conservation should be considered in the money stages of tournament play, and a tight player may not choose to gamble on a drawing hand heads-up.