Filipino woman of death.

[wacki]

Ugh, my roommate (Dan) got involved with a Filipino woman. She is totally destroying his life. Even worse, Filipino women are known to marry American men simply to get citizenship. That's how bad the standard of living is over there. My roommates brother and I have serious doubts about this woman. She tells him that she is a 23 year old virgin, but when she comes up to visit all they do is have sex. Right..... 23 year old virgin.... He skips class so they can be together when she is here, so now he's flunking all of his classes. They have become so reclusive, neither Dan's brother or I have ever had a conversation with her. He skips out on poker night when she's here. Even worse, she is moving in permanently next week, and I am strongly suspicious that he is going to marry her.

This is quite possibly the dumbest thing I have ever seen. I don't get it. He has had plenty of really good looking girlfriends before. This one has his mind totally warped. His family is flipping out because of this.

[ThaSaltCracka]

its called a succubus. The sex has tainted his mind, he is now thinking with the small head as opposed to the big. I fear all hope is lost, but atleast he is getting laid.

[Popinjay]

sounds sucky but you are guilty of stereotyping here

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
sounds sucky but you are guilty of stereotyping here

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe. I'm sure there are many good Filipino women, but nobody that knows Dan is comfortable with this situation. So if I am stereotyping, so is everyone else. This girl has spent almost two weeks living with us recently, and I have yet to have conversation with her. That is not right.

[wacki]

And listen to this, her sister married a 55 year old man just to get her citizenship.

I feel bad for them, but I'm about to send my roommate on jerry springer.

[Popinjay]

I meant stereotyping by the fact that you prefaced the thread title with Filipino

[wacki]

Oh, well you have to admit that being Filipino has a huge factor to play in this situation. If she was American, I highly doubt this would be happening. I highly doubt Dan would be flunking out of school, and I highly doubt her sister would of married a 55 year old man when she was 20.

[ThaSaltCracka]

well she is Fillipino.

[craig r]

it isn't "Fillipino Woman" even, it is "Fillipino Women." As in he is stereo-typing a whole race/ethnicity.

[ThaSaltCracka]

oh, maybe it was a typo. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
Even worse, Filipino women are known to marry American men simply to get citizenship.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, probably just a typo. Haha!!!

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Even worse, Filipino women are known to marry American men simply to get citizenship.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, probably just a typo. Haha!!!

[/ QUOTE ]eh, he may be pigeon holing, but I think this may be true of some women that are immigrants.

[wacki]

To keep myself from being a racist, I changed it to woman. But to be just to let you know, Dans woman, her sister, and her friend are all doing the same thing. So that is 3 women.

I am sure the vast majority of Filipinos are good hard working people. For all I know this girl is a good person too. I simply can't tell because I haven't met her yet. But considering the current state of Dan's life, and the fact that she has lived with me but never talked to me, I'm very worried.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
and the fact that she has lived with me but never talked to me, I'm very worried.

[/ QUOTE ] How is this possible? Is she never there when you're home or is she avoiding you?

[WEASEL45]

at least he didnt call her a flip

[wacki]

When I see her she is very quiet. I've tried to talk to her but she doesn't respond, and acts shy. They lock themselves in his room and don't come out. I can't go in because they are always "busy", naked, or having a talk.

Dan has scheduled dinners with me, his girl, and his brother, but always cancels or forgets to call at the last minute.

[Topflight]

She probably just walks in and goes straight to Dan's room, afterall she has work to do. It isn't easy earning that green card.

[ThaSaltCracka]

you need to grab your boy take him somewehere with an 18 pack and let it all come out man. Drunk talks are great.

[jdl22]

[ QUOTE ]
If she was American, I highly doubt this would be happening.

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmm let's see. He spends too much time with her, ignores his friends now that he's with her, and has cut back on playing poker since they hooked up. She doesn't talk to his friends, apparently lied about her past sexual experiences, seems obsessed with marriage, is probably using him and has him by the balls. Is that about right?

The description above really doesn't describe the situation of any of your friends with white girlfriends? It isn't uncommon to have a friend with a new gf that is very controlling and seems to be damaging them. That's something I've observed with Americans, Europeans, and Latin Americans so it's not too surprising that it is the case with women from the Phillipines as well.

[wacki]

Ya, I have one shot and it's this weekend. Next thursday she moves in permanently. Dan's brother and I have already decided to have a sitdown with him, we just need to figure out how to proceed without causing more harm than good.

[wacki]

Good point, but what do you say about her teenage friend marrying a man that is over the hill? And what about her sister?

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
eh, he may be pigeon holing, but I think this may be true of some women that are immigrants.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but because it's just not all that uncommon for women to want to do that(I've known a few), it's all the more unfair to refer to it as a Filipino tendency. Would he have said the same thing if she was French?

I may not think it's that big a deal myself, but then again I'm not Filipino. I'm just saying it was sloppy thinking and sloppy speaking, and kind of unfair. Maybe there was a way of stating the fear that there was something not legit going on without singling out a specific race and tarring them all with the same brush.

The remark may have been more thoughtless than malignant, but actually it's impossible to tell. You really couldn't blame anyone for taking it the wrong way when it's put the wrong way.

[ThaSaltCracka]

I agree with you.

[ilya]

Is she really hot?

....

On a more serious note...in wacki's defense, I don't think he's being racist/ethnicist/what-not. I am sure he appreciates that her being Filipino is only relevant insofar as many Filipinos are extremely poor and have a whole lot more to gain (for themselves, sure, but also for their families) from a green-card marriage than, say, women from Western Europe.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
When I see her she is very quiet. I've tried to talk to her but she doesn't respond, and acts shy. They lock themselves in his room and don't come out. I can't go in because they are always "busy", naked, or having a talk.

[/ QUOTE ]

Growing up in Guam and Hawaii, I knew and was surrounded by plenty of Filipino people all the time. Just a couple comments about how a lot of them come across culturally, in my experience.

First, a lot of them are stand-offish. Sometimes even hostile. Many cultures consider Americans extremely forward, and sometimes they don't like it, though sometimes they do. But they often consider American friendship easy to get but extremely shallow once you get it. I kind of agree, actually, even though I'm an American myself. An American is not the most likely friend I'd pick to back me up in a fight.

Anyway, why so often Filipinos seem insular, I'm not sure. Part of it is probably that they are in general a very religious people, which tends to create a strong culture of "us" vs. "them" toward everyone else. They take their Catholicism extremely seriously there, much more seriously than most places. Men and women are often separate from each other, especially on the many small, isolated islands that the Phillipines has thousands of. So they're insular toward each other, not just other peoples. The second major religion in the Phillipines is Islam, which is often even more forbiddingly aloof toward unbelievers and other people than Catholicism.

Traditional native severity coupled with severe religious outlooks spilling over for many hundreds of years into the rest of life has made, to me, Filipinos generally the most reclusive of any Asians I've met.

This might be multiplied in front of you because religious guilt and shame could come with her knowing that you know all about what she is doing sexually, which even if it is common practice among people she knows, is culturally very much forbidden and looked down on. It could be an extremely uncomfortable situation for her, even though she's been instrumental in putting herself in that position. Withdrawing into her shell might not be the smartest and most mature thing to do, but if she has feelings of shame and being exposed, those feelings come from a place that operates below the level of logic and take over before maturity and the practical need to live well and become friends with the people she's living with operate. Just instinctually, she may be ashamed in front of you, and that may be hard for her to overcome.

So...there are a lot of cultural and personal reasons she could have for being so stand-offish. Someone from our culture might feel a little of that, but so much less than we're used to that this Filipino woman might seem like a woman from Mars in comparison.

You can try to find out which way it really is. Don't assume too much malice before you know it's fair to do so. Even not talking to you, in some cultures, is not a sign of disrespect, or if it is, is a kind of disrespect that's not thought especially offensive or noteable.

If you do get the opportunity to try to get to know her, it may be a tough road even if she has the best of intentions. If either one of you is less than perfect, this whole thing is going to stay hard on all of you. It's going to be very hard on your roommate who is so besotten with her, too. It could harm your relationship permanently if anything goes wrong or just doesn't go right enough. Especially since his thinking may be a little screwy right now.

Anyway, there are a lot of things going on and it's hard to tell what, but remember that trying to interpret someone from a drastically different culture by our rules sometimes doesn't work. You may have to try to understand them from their perspective.

A little welcome could be nice too. Have you tried bringing some girls over to introduce her to, to get her in your social circle? It might be inappropriate in her eyes to talk much with men or strangers, but not nearly so much if they are women. And she may blossom a lot toward everyone if she feels there is more than one room in the house, and one person in the neighborhood, she is welcome in and welcome with.

Couples often, maybe usually, want to go out with other couples. Are there couples you know who also care about your roommate who might want to smooth everything over for him by getting to know and socialize with him and his girlfriend on "couples" dates?

There may be a lot you guys can do to make things smoother.

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]

Anyway, why so often Filipinos seem insular, I'm not sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's because they live on an island, duh...

[Lawrence Ng]

[ QUOTE ]
A little welcome could be nice too. Have you tried bringing some girls over to introduce her to, to get her in your social circle? It might be inappropriate in her eyes to talk much with men or strangers, but not nearly so much if they are women. And she may blossom a lot toward everyone if she feels there is more than one room in the house, and one person in the neighborhood, she is welcome in and welcome with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could not have said this better myself. I think wacki has a little bias towards this newfound girlfriend. But it really takes an open arm towards being friendly to others in order to receive the same in return.

Coming over from a smaller 3rd world country into the "country" where everything right down to the color of the skin is different must be very hard for her. It will take her some time to accept and belong here.

Are her intentions malacious? Well, I sure hope not. But as your roommate's good friend you should support him if he feels so strongly about this.

Oh yes and Blarg is quickly becoming my favorite poster. The knowledge you possess is not only admirable, but scary. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
It's because they live on an island, duh...

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, I grew up on islands -- Guam and Hawaii and the Virgin Islands. Not everyone was quite that insular, and those islands were far far smaller than the main islands of the Phillipines.

I know what you're saying though. People are insular toward each other in general, and being on islands can magnify that. I think that doesn't factor into it all that much in the case of Filipinos in general, because so many of them live on really huge islands, and so many other people who live on islands are not quite that forbidding toward strangers, even when they're outright prejudiced.

It might apply toward this particular girl, though. On some of those little islands, mixing with men is literally not done at all until after you're married.

[ilya]

I was sorta kidding ...but I guess I was sorta right, too. Go figure. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[spamuell]

[ QUOTE ]
Good point, but what do you say about her teenage friend marrying a man that is over the hill? And what about her sister?

[/ QUOTE ]

What does this have to do with her? If people typecast me from my sister's behaviour, they'd think me much sluttier than I am.

Are you sure she speaks English?

[daryn]

pics of sister plz.

[Men the Master]

I have a Filipino friend named Bong. I used to play a lot of poker with him back when he was still a pizza delivery boy. He was a very unpredictable no-limit player. Now he is a nurse, a male nurse like Gaylord Focker. He just passed the nurse exams this past summer, and so did all of his siblings.

Anyway, I let Bong read Wacki's post. And according to him, the girl does not talk to anyone else simply because she is just insecure about her inglis (Bong's word not mine). He said that even though the Philippines has 95% literacy rate(one of the highest in the world)and uses English as its second language, the other 5% are really bad at it (though not as bad as Muhamad Ali, he told me). According to Bong, this girl may be one of the 5%. That's why she's insecure and shy.

Bong also said that he knows a lot of 26 year old virgins ("extreme Catholics" he tells me) that he wants to introduce to me. I can't wait! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[wacki]

I just want to say thankyou to Blarg, Men the Master, and everyone else for all of your help. This situation is becoming extremely difficult to deal with and I am literally watching a good friend destroy his life. My friend Dan has officially dropped out of school and is looking for a place in Indy to permanently live with her. He plans on breaking his lease with me. His family is totally distraught. His Aunt flew in from Colorado to Indy to talk to him. He has a boxer called Rosco that he loves and takes out to the woods almost everyday that he has convinced his mom to take, and I suspect he might end up getting rid of it permanently. His attitude is becoming highly eratic.

She was supposed to spend the week in florida and then move in next thursday. Today, when I came home I found a note on my desk. Without asking he took my poker money and went to florida to pick her up. He couldn't wait 5 days to see her. I have a cellphone on me 24 hours a day and he knows this. He made no effort to ask me if he could take my poker money.

The night before he was very drunk and made the first effort to ask me what I thought about Merah. I simply responded that I had no opinion of her because I never met her. And despite my previous words, that is the truth. I did tell him that I have seen him take a massive turn for the worse and I simply said I don't like the way the whole situation smells. I made it clear that it wasn't her that stunk, it was him, or atleast what was happening to him and how his life was going down the toilet. At that point he started trying really hard to convince me that she was no Hannah (a very evil woman that we know that is famous for destroying peoples lives). I told him I didn't think she was a Hannah, but he kept on trying to convince that she wasn't. Then he started asking me if I thought Rosco (the dog) hated her. The conversation got weirder and weirder. I've known this guy for a long time, and I've seen him do some stupid stuff but he never goes overboard. I think my roommate is clinically insane. His brother and I were going to have a sitdown talk with him this weekend, but that chance is lost.
Salt, I think you were right I cannot help him anymore.

At this point, I hope that she really does love him, because I think he is going to be psychologically scarred for life if this thing ends up to be either a scam, or ending tragically. Considering how much of a downturn he has taken since meeting her, I can only conclude that even if she has a pure heart, they are not healthy for each other. I have no absolute proof of this of course, but you cannot deny that the evidence is strongly pointing in this direction.

BTW Salt, please explain how I am pigeon holing. I have made multiple efforts to say that I am sure that the vast majority of Filipinos are good people. I hope most people can read through some of the descriptors I am using and not label me a racist. It is hard to control yourself and talk without emotion when someone very close to you is destroying their life.

I am particularly worried about this situation because of her close ties to other women that have married much older men. That has nothing to do with her nationality, that has to deal with the theory that "like attracts like".

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
A little welcome could be nice too. Have you tried bringing some girls over to introduce her to, to get her in your social circle?

[/ QUOTE ]

I will try to do this.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
Is she really hot?

[/ QUOTE ]

She has a decent body (she's petite and there's no fat), but he's had many that were much better looking IMO and in his brothers as well. He has a fetish for asians. Filipino isn't asian, but for some reason it pushes his buttons. Plus, everyone that has seen her thinks she is probably more like 27-30 instead of 23.

[ QUOTE ]

On a more serious note...in wacki's defense, I don't think he's being racist/ethnicist/what-not. I am sure he appreciates that her being Filipino is only relevant insofar as many Filipinos are extremely poor and have a whole lot more to gain (for themselves, sure, but also for their families) from a green-card marriage than, say, women from Western Europe.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thankyou!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lazymeatball]

Filipinos aren't Asians? That's news to me. Are they generally considered more like Pacific Islanders? How are they perceived by other mainland Asians? Seriously, I've always thought they were all just Asians, was I wrong?

[wacki]

I don't know how they are classified. They may be technically considered Asian, but she doesn't look like any of my Asian friends. She has skin that looks alot more Indian (India) or Pakistani. She doesn't have slanted eyes either. I'm just saying she doesn't look like something that would turn on somebody with an Asian fetish.

She almost looks like a Native American, you know, an Indian (not India).

I hope that made sense to everyone.

[Lazymeatball]

gotcha, after doing some research online, Filipino's do have more of an ethnic look to them than most Chineese, Japaneese, Korean, and SouthEastern Asians that would place them lower on the list for those with 'Dragon Fever.'

[Blarg]

There's all kinds of political correctness gong around and muddying up the waters these days. It's almost impossible to say something that won't freak someone out.

Generally, you're supposed to refer to almost everyone as Asians now, it seems, but actually the people in those parts of the world used to look at you as if you were crazy if you called them that. I think most of them would still look at you as crazy just for the idea of the unity or commonality between peoples it implies.

It's not like Europeans, where there's a sense of some sort of identity and common shared background -- Latinate and Germanic languages, relatively small geographical area, religion, etc. -- even among very different people who have been battling each other for thousands of years.

The "Asian" people I've known tend to think of themselves as very different and with a very separate identity from other "Asians." Calling them Asians now feels to me more like a type of political correctness white guys invented which doesn't really apply, but which everybody has started to go along with because it's easier than arguing about stupid stuff all the time.

What I mean is that Japanese consider themselves very distinct from Chinese and vice-versa; Chinese consider themselves very distinct from mongolians; Koreans consider themselves very distinct from Vietnamese, etc. There's a very strong sense of racial identity that gets broken down into small and seemingly independent parts - much more so than betweeen a Swede and a Frenchman, say.

I grew up around mostly "Asians" predominately, and they never ever ever referred to themselves as Asian. Not a one of them, not once that I remember in decades. They were simply Filipino or Japanese or whatever.

And "Oriental" was a term Japanese, Korean, Chinese, and some others commonly used to identify themselves -- that was one group of different peoples who felt okay using an umbrella term. But for them, to refer to themselves and, say, Filipinos or Pacific Islanders as belonging to one unified group would have been just plain weird. There is no sense of shared identity and history across those really broad set of cultures and great geographical divides.

Now Asian is the term of choice among white people at least, and some people in Asia seem to be warming up to it. But the idea that "Oriental" was ever a term meant in any bad way is absurd. It was a more useful term than Asian is today.

To put it in some kind of perspective, the idea of a "United States of Europe" was going around for a very long time before the European Union was formed. It was a natural and probably inevitable. And despite the large number of different languages, it fit together well.

Try to imagine a "United States of Asia," by comparison. Hard to imagine anyone wants it, or that it would work at all. The people are just too distinct, and don't imagine themselves part of a shared identity to any significant extent. The closest anyone has come to that idea is pure revisionist history -- that is, the Japanese insistence that their occupation of many Asian countries was a "liberation" and that they were just trying to help foster some sort of Pan-Asian identity. Pure crap, basically. A unified sense of "Asian" identity isn't natural to such diverse peoples, and could probably only come in the way the Japanese and Mongols tried it -- at the point of a gun or a cannon. Our now popular American way of referring to that broad swath of people as if there were more in common between them than there is, and perhaps as if they feel that way too, is clumsy foolish. But if you don't want to get harangued by politically correct jerks, it's become necessary to try to pretend the term "Asian" works better than it really does.

[ACPlayer]

Asians are people from Asia - including Japan, China, Tibet, Korea, Thailand, Malaysia, India, Phillipines, Singapore, Hong Kong, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, lebanon, syria, israel.

In the rest of the world that is how they are defined. In popular American lingo Asian is a codeword for oriental. That is of yellow skin and slant eyes (to put it in crude terms). You would get funny looks in India or Malaysia if you suggested that they were not asians.

[Lazymeatball]

nice analysis Blarg.
It seems that the replacing of the term Oriental with Asian made no sense as Asian also includes people from the middle east (Arabia, Persia, all the 'Stans of Central Asia, etc) and from South Asia (India, Pakistan, etc) who have clear differences with those who were traditionally called Orientals.

It makes as much sense as using the term North Americans to refer to all the people of that continent. Obviously there are going to be great economic, racial, and cultural differences above and below the Rio Grande.

[Men the Master]

My Uncle Thuong says you, your friends, and your friend's family also have to look at how you may have contributed to his decisions. He says that some people are reverse psychology types. When you tell them not to do something, they'll do it just for the sake of it. Like, when I was a kid, my Mom told me not to climb the coconut tree. But the more she said it the more I did it until I fell and a coconut hit me on the head. Uncle Thuong says a lot of people are this way. The more you tell them not to do it, the more they'll do it. If you tell it to them with passionate emotions, the more passionate they become at doing it.

Another thing. You really can't be sure if his decision is indeed wrong. I asked my cousin Meng's ex-girlfriend Spring's opinion on this matter and all she could say is that being closer to this girl, your friend knows a lot more about her than you and that he might therefore see inner qualities that you'll never get to see. She also said that her Filipino girl friends tend to be conservative as opposed to liberated and that you friend may in fact be lucky.

[wacki]

I just want to make it clear that I use a lot of control when actually dealing with him and this situation. In fact, I tend to use a lot more control in real life than I do in this forum as a lot of times I use this forum simply to vent.

I doubt that I have played any part in the reverse psychology of this situation as I have only gently criticized him dropping out of school and the general decline in his quality of life.

I have made no case or opinion of Merah to his face. I don't have the right to at this point, I haven't even met her. Honestly, I don't have an opinion of Merah, just fears that I might bring up to his face and quickly denounce. But at this point I don't even really think I have fears anyways because I can't see this relationship lasting anyway. It's simply too intense and too crazy in order for it to end up as a steady life long relationship. I could be totally wrong, but I've never seen flames this intense last. There's nothing for me to do because this train is moving at such a high rate of speed I doubt I would be able to even slow it down.

Sadly, it feels like there is nothing to do but for me to call him a moron for pointlessly throwing away a degree he had almost finished, totally alienating his friends and family, disrescpecting me by taking my poker money without asking, and wish him a happy life/marriage because he is going to need it.... badly. Right now I'm wondering if I should just yell at him for being a disrespectfull [censored] and general idiot to his face even if Merah is present. I would then appologize to Merah for being harsh to Dan infront of her. This would make it clear my anger is not directed at her, but Dan. One thing is certain I have to have serious words with Dan about his attitudes towards his academics, his family, and me.

I will be nice to her, and get some female friends to try to interact with her but the whole situation is so messed up and he is showing such little concern for everyone else in his life I'm starting not to care anymore. I don't know, maybe I'm just numb from shock.

[wacki]

Again, thanks to all that have posted.

[Rushmore]

I haven't read all of the other posts, but this has to be one of the funniest things I've read here at 2+2:

[ QUOTE ]
His family is flipping out because of this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I cannot imagine this was not intentionally doubleentendrenudinal.

Yes, I made that word up.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
His family is flipping out because of this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I cannot imagine this was not intentionally doubleentendrenudinal.


[/ QUOTE ]

I try and make a serious post, but no matter what I say and no matter how many disclaimers I post or retractions I make, someone will always find a way to make me look like a racist pig. Thanks, [censored].

[Rushmore]

[ QUOTE ]
I try and make a serious post, but no matter what I say and no matter how many disclaimers I post or retractions I make, someone will always find a way to make me look like a racist pig. Thanks, [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

Calm down, dude.

Personally, I don't think it would make you a "racist pig" if you HAD intended the phrase doubleentendretudinally.

I was just making a little joke-type thing, as I thought your choice of words was a little, like, funny.


I guess I'll have to go back and read the other posts, in the hopes that there is something lying within those posts which has put you so severely on tilt. Otherwise, I think you're wound just way way too tight.

Be calm, man. Calm.

[wacki]

Sorry, I am a little uptight right now for obvious reasons. If you read this thread and see how many times I've been called racist in this thread I think you will understand.

[Duke]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I am a little uptight right now for obvious reasons. If you read this thread and see how many times I've been called racist in this thread I think you will understand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Be like me.

I'm an equal opportunity racist. I hate something about every single race, including mine.

Then when people call you a racist you can say: "I know!"

~D

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]


I'm an equal opportunity racist. I hate something about every single race, including mine.

Then when people call you a racist you can say: "I know!"

~D

[/ QUOTE ]

I love it!

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems that the replacing of the term Oriental with Asian made no sense as Asian also includes people from the middle east (Arabia, Persia, all the 'Stans of Central Asia, etc) and from South Asia (India, Pakistan, etc) who have clear differences with those who were traditionally called Orientals.

It makes as much sense as using the term North Americans to refer to all the people of that continent. Obviously there are going to be great economic, racial, and cultural differences above and below the Rio Grande.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. There is so much included under Asian, so many dissimilar religious and cultural traditions and racial differences, that it is a completely absurd term. Imagine the Vietnamese feeling any sense of commonality with people from Turkmenistan or even Pakistan. It's just too ridiculously broad a term to be useful.

It's especially bizarre coming to the United States as I did and having white people, many of whom probably don't like Asians of any type and who have hardly known any well, telling me that "Oriental" is a racist term -- when almost all my friends were "Oriental" growing up and all of them used the term "Oriental" themselves, without ever thinking there was a thing wrong with it(because there isn't). Similarly, not a single Filipino ever called himself Oriental, because there is obviously little in common most people in what is now called "Asia" have with the vast majority of people who we're trying to stuff under that umbrella. Their identity is almost always individual and not shared; Oriental is the only term anyone ever willingly shared, and it was shared quite willingly, without exception.

[BeerMoney]

Fillipino women are supposed to be pretty attractive. If she's nice, good looking, what's the problem? You can't comment on her personality cause you haven't talked to her.

[BeerMoney]

Daryn, get over your Asian fetish.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]

Fillipino women are supposed to be pretty attractive. If she's nice, good looking, what's the problem? You can't comment on her personality cause you haven't talked to her.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously you need to reread my posts.

1) He just flunked out of school when he didn't have that much college left.
2) Took my poker money without asking and bolted to Florida because he couldn't wait 4 more days to see her.
3) Got rid of his dog that he loved to death
4) He has become mentally unstable
5) She claims to be a virgin but they had sex on the first night and every single free moment since then.
6) She says she's about his age, but looks more like 30.
7) Her friends and family have a history for marrying for greencards.
8) He has turned into a pathalogical liar to his parents which is not normal for him. He is starting to do the same with me and his brother which is way not cool and he knows how I feel about that bullshit.

Should I go on? Is it clear enough? Is this not messed up enough for you?

[craig r]

Wacki,

I didn't want to bring this up..but about two weeks ago in a thread you used the term "n-gger rig." Which you also did not think was racist. But, hey I am probably just being a neurotic Jew, so what do i know?

craig

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
Wacki,

I didn't want to bring this up..but about two weeks ago in a thread you used the term "n-gger rig." Which you also did not think was racist.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[ QUOTE ]
But, hey I am probably just being a neurotic Jew, so what do i know?

craig

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
1) He just flunked out of school when he didn't have that much college left.
2) Took my poker money without asking and bolted to Florida because he couldn't wait 4 more days to see her.
3) Got rid of his dog that he loved to death
4) He has become mentally unstable
5) She claims to be a virgin but they had sex on the first night and every single free moment since then.
6) She says she's about his age, but looks more like 30.
7) Her friends and family have a history for marrying for greencards.
8) He has turned into a pathological liar to his parents which is not normal for him. .

[/ QUOTE ]

The man is clearly, deeply in love. You are being a spoilsport.

The sex must be great, by the way. If she does it with him every day, she is either a skilled pro or also very much in love. (By the way, recently "turned" ex-virgins can be volcano-red hot, so don't rush to make judgements.)

If she is not hitting him for money, what are you worrying about? Try to agree with him that this is indeed one moment in his life which is full of passion (and how many of those you think we'll have?) and steer him towards considering waiting up a bit before tying the knot yet.

And if worse comes to worse, and she dumps him after getting her marriage licence/green card, he will still have those all-nighters to fall back on. Be there to catch him if he falls, though. That's what friends are for.

[wacki]

Cyrus,
Thankyou for being civil and giving a serious response full of well intentioned and well thought out advice. I appreciate it.

I was completely supportive of this whole thing until his life went to [censored]. I have only once given any indication to him I don't like the situation and that is after he told me he has decided to drop out of school. I have never said anything bad about her. It his self destructive behavior that I am worried about. Not to mention the fact that he has started lying to me and his brother. Nobody in his life has even talked to this woman and I don't like that at all. I'm not trying to sabatoge her, I'm trying to stop his self destructive behavior and his ever increasing reclusiveness.

Lets assume that her intentions are true, and I hope they are. I think you can agree the more stable and self sustaining he is, the better chance their relationship has to succeed. His self destructive behavior is only going to increase the likelyhood that their relationship will turn sour. Do you agree?

[Cyrus]

"I don't like the situation after he told me he has decided to drop out of school."

It is obvious that everything in his life right now is defined in relation to her. So any advice you might wanna give must include her and not exclude her. Otherwise you lose him in the conversation. This could mean, for instance, to challenge him about dropping out: Doesn't he realize he has better chances of still being with her after two years if he is a college graduate? There are stats to prove this! (Never mind where. /images/graemlins/smile.gif) Or, why can't he find a clever way to be near her AND take the degree? Great girls like her always appreciate smartness in guys. Etc.

"It his self destructive behaviour that I am worried about. Not to mention the fact that he has started lying to me and his brother."

Again : it's called passionate love. A condition that disturbs the moral compass. Consider yourself lucky if you've ever been through passionate love - no matter what the eventual outcome.

"Nobody in his life has even talked to this woman and I don't like that at all."

It could be that he himself is shielding her from all of you because he knows what your reactions will be, i.e. negative and patronizing. You are all banging against the wall, instead of opening some doors.

"Let's assume that her intentions are true. The more stable and self sustaining he is, the better chance their relationship has to succeed. His self destructive behaviour is only going to increase the likelihood that their relationship will turn sour. Do you agree?"

What you are seeing as "unstable" is standard response to passionate love. There is no doubt in your mind that your friend is smitten - so why not factor that in how you view his behaviour ?

If he is not too "stable" mentally, he could do himself harm during/after the relationship. To avoid that, the man needs to get a grip on something else also, besides his girlfriend. But, it seems, that because of her, family and friends are giving him grief! So, when the time may come up for him to seek a friendly shoulder to cry on, he will not consider turning for sympathy to any of you folks, which means that in his mind he will be abandoned and alone. (And dangerous.)

I agree that being "self-destructive" is not a good thing (!) but I don't see anyone helping out the guy. All you folks do is get on his case about the one single thing that he cares the most right now in the whole world! Ah, wrong play, Jack.

[wacki]

Very good post Cyrus, one of the best in this thread. It is also the best post of yours that I have ever read. I have no doubt you have helped both me and him a great deal. I owe you a debt of gratitude.

[ QUOTE ]
All you folks do is get on his case about the one single thing that he cares the most right now in the whole world! Ah, wrong play, Jack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just a little advice, you are drawing too many assumptions, you need to watch that. I have never got on his case in person about the woman, only in this thread have I pointed out any ill patterns. In person I have told him I didn't like him not going to class and dropping out of school, and I didn't like him getting rid of Rosco.

When he gets back I will lay into him for taking my money without asking. I have already set up several females that know him and are going to come over and try to get to know his woman.

You are right about one thing Cyrus, he is experiencing passionate love. I will not step infront of that. To do otherwise would to deny him a great and rare treasure. I only hope it is mutual, and I only hope he will not completely destroy himself.

[Rushmore]

DISCLAIMER: I think we're all waaaaay too sensitive when it comes to race. It's actually absurd to pretend there are no differences between the races/cultures/whatever.

That said, why would it be ok to use the term "Jerry-rig," when it is not ok to use the term "nigger-rig?"

"Jerry" refers to the German people, and "nigger" refers to people of African descent, for the most part.

I don't use terms like this myself, but that's just because I think they're stupid. It's not that I think I will go to jail or burn in hell for using them.

But hey--I'm probably drunk, dumb Mick that I am.

[Blarg]

Interesting post with a lot of good ideas, Cyrus.

[ QUOTE ]
But, it seems, that because of her, family and friends are giving him grief!

[/ QUOTE ]

When you said that, though, I had to think that it's not really because of her that his family and friends(and not all of them, even, apparently -- and significantly) are giving him grief. It's his own fault. It's because of him, how he's handling the situation.

He's the one that's either squirreling her away or allowing the situation to develop where she is no more than a shadow and a mystery to his family or friends. It doesn't have to be that way, but he's either allowing it or insisting on it. He's the one quitting school and stealing money., and entirely responsible and to blame for it. It may be more or less forgiveable because he's off his rocker with love, maybe not. But the blame lies with him.

I think he's probably at some real level aware of that, and perhaps ashamed of and self-conscious about his own behavior. He's no stranger to what's going on and what everyone's reaction must be, though he may be in denial about it and very subconsciously conflicted about it. He may feel pretty out of control even as he's doing things that make him more out of control by the minute, and ashamed of it or uncertain how to handle it. Ignoring his friends and family may be the only reaction he's mature and brave enough to muster.

That might be why he's hiding her away and apparently letting her hide herself away. He could have no confidence he's doing the right thing, and therefore wanting to confront anyone about any of it as little as possible. He could be terrified of everyone's opinion right now before they even have a chance to give it, and scared to work the girl into anyone else's life before he knows whether it will go well or not. He could just be chronically fearful or pessimistic about how everyone might respond, and about how he'd stand up to it. Failing to stand up to it well might make him lose the girl he's basing his whole life and soul on right now, which would devastate him. So doing things the way he's doing could feel like him to be the only way out.

It kind of reminds me, and I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, of suicides in a way. Lots of people say, Why? Especially if it seemed to happen over some trivial thing, or suddenly. But there's usually a long build-up to something like that, and in some people it's an unhappiness or insecurity that has been building up all their lives -- or has been suppressed or seemingly gotten over but really is just waiting to be triggered by something before the final explosion goes off.

There's a good chance this guy was never anywhere near as stable or confident as he appeared, if this one girl has turned his whole life upside down this way. When people are young, they're very vulnerable and easily persuaded, even the most intelligent among them. They often go looking for answers and will often take almost any they get -- a new religion, drugs, some crazy philosophical tripe only a college kid could love, etc. And also a new relationship could be their new "answer" to solve things and stand in for a whole range of things that are lacking in their lives. Guys can attach on to girls with the desperation of a whole lifetime built into it sometimes. All the more so for people with lots of problematic back-story in the first place. College age is right around the time schizophrenia and other mental illness commonly breaks out, too. A lot of people are lit fuses around that age.

He could be well aware of his floundering, and the last thing he might want to do is share his feeling of weakness and vulnerability and out of control emotion with anyone. He might be afraid everything could shatter at once, like his love and his whole life is a hoax on the brink of being found out or ruined or something.

I guess what I'm trying to say is people in his situation are often responding to complex and scary emotions within themselves, and can get very unrealistic and try to use one thing or one person to solve their whole lives with the force of desperation, and so wind up reducing their whole lives to an infantile concentration on just making that one thing go well and retreating from everything else -- including any semblance of logic.

Ascribing a lot of this to the woman may be appropriate or not. She may encourage his dependency and even his insecurity, finding it a way to make her feel needed and important, even in control. There's a lot to be said for that in an uncertain world, and not everyone wants a relationship that's healthy as much as they want one in which they feel they're getting the maximum benefit. And that's even if they're relatively decent people.

But she couldn't do it without him and his own pathology -- a pathology that she may have locked into and be feeding on or not, who knows, but that was within him long before she ever showed up. Ascribing too much of the craziness to her is hard to do fairly without knowing a lot more, more than you'll ever probably know in this case, because nobody really knows what goes on between a man and a woman.

It's all just a guessing game and hopefully there will be enough support and opportunity for face-saving on all sides. The last thing the guy is going to want to hear is, "I told you so." He's probably well aware how nuts he's acting, and that would just be like hearing a nail pounded into his coffin.

Even if this girl is long gone eventually, this guy will probably still have problems for a long time to come, just like he probably had them for a long time before this.

Working them out is part of growing up though. Lots of us go pretty damn crazy for a while. Most of us come back from it, too. Sometimes there's not much you can do but let it play out without being too harshly judgmental or superior about the process, and try to be there to catch them when they fall. It could happen to anyone, and probably has happened to a lot more people we know than we would ever believe.

[zoomOut]

Wow Blarg…holy [censored] you really know people! I really enjoy reading your posts.

Wacki-
Good topic. You are to be commended for caring so much about your roommate. I really feel your pain. One thing that jumps out at me right away is what kind of girl would want her boyfriend to become distanced from his family and quit school? I don’t care how shy or insecure she is, she must be either immature or very selfish. I think you are absolutely right to be alarmed. This shows poor judgment on her part, and a lack of respect for the welfare of Dan.

Blarg is so right when he says:
“He could be well aware of his floundering, and the last thing he might want to do is share his feeling of weakness and vulnerability and out of control emotion with anyone. He might be afraid everything could shatter at once, like his love and his whole life is a hoax on the brink of being found out or ruined or something.”

I had a thought. Maybe this is the first girl who made him feel like he was needed…like really needed? Gave him some relevance, you know? Not that I’m saying that’s good, but it’s something that happened to me some years back.

I went through something similar myself only I am a girl. I was feeling really blah…unimportant to anyone. I had just started graduate school on a full scholarship having just obtained my degree from Indiana University in Geology (graduated the top in my class!). When I enrolled in the graduate program, I went through a total meltdown. I had absolutely no confidence whatsoever and found myself surrounded by lots of bright graduate students who could run circles around me. My personality was really shy and soft-spoken…it was a disastrous situation. I latched onto this loveable loser I’d met at field camp earlier in the year who made me feel like I was important. Made me feel needed. We started a passionate fling that got way out of control. You can’t even imagine the look on my mother’s face when I told her I wanted to drop out of graduate school and drive out to California with this new guy in his old beat up VW Van. Needless to say it did not go over well.

Again, Blarg hit it right on the head when he said:

“But there's usually a long build-up to something like that, and in some people it's an unhappiness or insecurity that has been building up all their lives -- .”

To make a long story short, I ended up quitting graduate school and disappointing my parents...you get the idea. I didn’t want to talk to anybody about it because I was ashamed of myself and incredibly embarrassed that I could not handle life like an adult. I purposefully kept my boyfriend from them because he was a complete idiot and when he opened his mouth stupid things came out of it. Way too embarrassing. I worked my ass off after that just to prove to everyone that I wasn’t a total failure. Ended up marrying the loveable loser (he never could hold a job, was always high on weed) and only about eight people showed up at my wedding. Needless to say, it’s been really hard to earn back my family’s respect. I still don’t think I have. I can only blame myself.

Dan is going to do what he’s going to do. There’s nothing anybody can say to dissuade him. Too bad the new girlfriend isn’t trying to look out for his welfare. She sounds like a user to me. At the very least she sounds incredibly short-sighted. I don’t blame you at all for being pissed off and concerned, Wacki.

There is something you can do though that might help him in the long run. Pat him on the back, smile, and tell him you are happy for him if he’s truly happy and that you will always remain friends. Then don’t sweat it anymore. This will get him thinking. Once people stop acting so worried for him, he’ll start to worry for himself. He’ll actually begin to grow up.

Cyrus wrote probably one of the sweetest things I’ve read in this forum.
“Be there to catch him if he falls, though. That's what friends are for. “

Boy if we could all just do that!

Now about the poker money he stole from you…..what’s up with that? What kind of person steals their roommate’s poker money?

[wacki]

He didn't really steal it, just took it without asking and left a note with an IOU. I have a cellphone so he should of atleast called me. He isn't returning my phonecalls, but he will be back tonight. He normally is a very loyal guy and he knows I absolutely despise people who exhibit this kind of behavior. Like I said, I think he's gone nuts.

[wacki]

Update:
Her passport says she's 33 but she says they screwed up and she's 23.

She's pregnant.

Atleast he still really likes her, but both of these situations have finally caused him to start asking serious questions.

[Blarg]

An well, most good lessons are impossible to learn except the hard way. Sounds like he was overdue for something like this to make him grow up. Hope the kid doesn't suffer negative repercussions for his parents' foolishness.

[wacki]

Ya, that's about the only way I can look at it right now too. It's too bad, he really isn't this crazy. I don't know what happened to him.

[theantelope]

So, what's happened?

[wacki]

She had a miscarriage... no abortion. So he is lucky he doens't have to become a father before he's ready.

They are still together, and they still hardly ever leave the bedroom. Tonight he promises to come out and play in our poker game, so we will see. When he isn't screwing her, he spends hours online playing at pokerschool and she sits there and watches him play. My opinion about her has changed. She says hi to me, but I've never really had a conversation with her yet. She is very quiet. She is a good cook though. She also keeps the place clean, keeps him very sober, washes his cloths, and cleans his dishes. It looks like they may actually be a good match. And it looks like I was either wrong about her, or she deserves an Oscar. Only time will tell.

He still needs an good old fashioned ass whoopin though.

And he needs one from me, his brother, his mom, his dad, and every single one of his friends.

[TheJunkyardGod]

Ahhh, He's fallen victim to that extra muscle those asian girls have in their vagina.....mmmmmmm Asian Girls.


But yeah bro, I would save your buddy. I knew a few girls who have done this (Except, replace "Filipino" with "Russian") and they marry them for like 2-3 years. and then Divorce them. In that 2-3 year timespan, they learn quite a few things. Like how you can take half your husbands belongings.....

[offTopic]

Has anyone here ever had an error on their passport? /images/graemlins/cool.gif

L-O-fricken-L