The 2+2 equivalent of meeting women

[Topflight]

ok, this whole "I suck with girls" thread is forcing me to post this.

Meeting and seducing women has been broken down into a science. There is a set of fundamental skills, terminology, etc etc. Even practice exercises.

If you have trouble with girls I suggest that you spend at least an hour at this site familiarizing yourself with some of the basics, it will make a world of difference.

This discussion group was designed to get girls into bed fast, however, even if this is not your goal the information is still very important.

Read and be enlightened (http://www.fastseduction.com)

Examples:

Kinetics- making sure you establish early in the relationship that touching is acceptable.

Neg Hit- sort of a small insult. The number of neg hits needed depends on the hotness of the chick. A not hot chick requires none, compliments work fine. A 10 may require a few just to break the ice.

3 second rule- You have 3 seconds to start talking to a girl when you see her. Following this rule forces you to do something and allows you to appear confident.

Future talk- talk about things that you guys will do together say 6 months from now. Wouldn't it be fun to go on a ski trip, we'd do this, we'd do that. Talking about something that you will be doing together months down the road makes it seem like you have in fact known each other for months. The comfort level jumps dramatically.

Exaple of practice exercise:

David Shade's Eye contact expirement-

Go to the mall and walk around. Make eye contact with every girl you see, don't break eye contact until she either smiles or says hello. You'll be amazed at how often a girl will smile or start talking to you.

[daveymck]

I havent clicked the link but I get spammed from either that site or a similar one every day sio have seen some of the stuff.

The problem I have with the 3 second rule is that I cant drink the 8 pints I need to chat up a girl in that time.

For me going and chatting up girls as always been a real trial and challenge, which is surprising as I in the main have always had more female friends than male ones (no I am not gay).

I think the chat up bar culture is a pain in the ass (but tends to be the way in the UK), every long term relationship i have had, started by a chance event and getting talking to someone, for example my current partner I was resting my drink on a table next to a girl who was listening in on her friends coversation with a bloke I made a comment about her being nosy and just got talking naturally from there.

I think its much better to try and be yourself than try and put out this mega confidant personality that you cant back up once the intial chatting happens.

Confidance and being relaxed and not afraid of rejection is the key in my opinion, however knowing this makes it no easier to do.

Plus remeber woman are just human too and want to meet people and want to get laid as well.

[Topflight]

They talk about bars and clubs being a great place to practice being rejected. Most success comes from meeting girls in places like bookstores and coffee shops. Or friends parties. At a small party you can be a stranger, but have a sort of implied reccomendation just by being there.

No girl pictures meeting the man of their dreams in a nightblub.

The situation you described about resting your drink on the table next to the nosey girl and then making a comment about it is textbook a.s.f

This is the type of situation to be putting yourself in.

[Topflight]

I doubt you get spammed from this site. I see no reason for them to spam.

It also appears that you have come to a conclusion about content of this website before even digesting it. The conclusion you have come to is wrong.

The advice is not to put on a fake confident [censored] attitude and walk up to some chick in a club. This strategy is obviously -PV.

[ThaSaltCracka]

good stuff man, keep it coming. Like Gamblor, I suck with girls too!

[daveymck]

I did click on it after posting, the site I get spammed with is www.DatingTechniques.net (http://www.DatingTechniques.net)
which is also a guy called David and has him giving similar advice (well in the emails anyway). I think he is selling the system but I havent been bothered enough to look.

I am naturally a cynical dismissive bugger especially when it comes to anyone having systems available on the internet, whether for becoming a property millionaire, a god with woman or whatever.

This is like the Harrington Tourney book, this first part tells you how to get through the early and mid levels, I need another final table part two book/site that gets down to the core of living with and understanding the female mind.

[daveymck]

Actually his double your dating stuff that gets spammed is reviewed on the site you gave with high recommendation.

http://www.fastseduction.com/reviews/doubleyourdating.shtml

[Topflight]

This is not a system. It is basically a collection of posts from an old newsgroup. This particular website just sort of sums up the greatest hits threads.

Most of the faqs are just collections of discussion from what would be the equivalent of GoT, ElD, etc.

No one is selling anything. Indeed you are closed minded.

Some of the "posters" have gone on to write books I guess, but I don't think the point is to sell them. I don't even remember seeing anythiing about them, accept maybe in the "books" section or something.

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
Future talk- talk about things that you guys will do together say 6 months from now. Wouldn't it be fun to go on a ski trip, we'd do this, we'd do that. Talking about something that you will be doing together months down the road makes it seem like you have in fact known each other for months. The comfort level jumps dramatically.

[/ QUOTE ]

this one can be disastrous

[Topflight]

The old newsgroup was called alt.seduction.fast

ASF

Anyway, all I'm saying is that if you can get past the atmosphere that this is some cheeseball scam trying to take your money, the information/stories/etc are very informative.

Maybe there is a better gateway to the information than the link I gave, but I think I remember that site being pretty good.

Maybe if you read you can go from an AFC(average frustrated chump) to a PUA(pick up artist)

hahaha, their acronyms are hilarious.

If you don't want to give it a chance that's fine. Maybe later I will go through the site and make specific links to the really key fundamental information. This was very enlightening to me, and pretty much changed the way I looked at the world. As far as women are concerned anyway.

[lu_hawk]

agreed, if you just meet a girl it is OK to talk about what you will do next weekend. talking about 6 months from now is creepy.

[daveymck]

[ QUOTE ]

No one is selling anything. Indeed you are closed minded.


[/ QUOTE ]

Very much so but I know and understand that I am, and this is probably a key to what you do in life as well. I am someone who likes to stay "in the box" in other words I like to stay with what I know and feel comfortable and dont like to get out of the box and expose myself into potentially difficult situations outside of my comfort zone, I like to absorb and bring things into the box myself.

Knowing who you are and how you learn and intearct with the world can help you with future study, confidance building etc etc .

I think this is key in dealing with relationships and trying to pull, is to know who you are and how you react and then use applicable techniques (from that site or others) that suit you.

Theres a book I think called How to Get what you want that is more a work/career type manual but also has a relationship type book as well that I and moreso my partner got a lot out of in understanding ourselves and what drives us.

[Topflight]

[ QUOTE ]
agreed, if you just meet a girl it is OK to talk about what you will do next weekend. talking about 6 months from now is creepy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, use the concept however it feels comfortable. The point is to be aware that it exists.

Don't be a creep and talk about what it will be like when you are married.

[Topflight]

Also, I don't think that is one of the hardcore fundamentals, just something I remembered of the top of my head.

Patterning would be much more important. This is basically mimicing the body language they are using, or tone of voice. Helps make things more comfortable.

As far as fluff talk goes, they talk about something called Eliciting Values. Basically you find out what qualities they find important, or characterstics about themselves that they like and act as if you have the same qualities.

"I love reading"

"Me too, I've read this and this, I loved this"

Even if you hate reading, you surely have read something you can talk about. This is much better than replying with "I don't like to read"

My examples are crude, and maybe even sometimes misapplied, that is why I linked to the site. But just knowing maybe 10 major concepts has upped my game tremendously.

[Topflight]

I'd say one of the most important ideas is Kinetics.

Set the foundation that touching is ok within the first five minutes. Place your hand on her shoulder, the small of her back. If your relationship starts off with touching as being acceptable, flirting becomes much easier. You will end up holding hands etc. much faster.

[OrangeHeat]

[ QUOTE ]
The 2+2 equivalent of meeting women

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought downloading porn off kazaa was the 2+2 equivalent of meeting women.

Orange

[mmbt0ne]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
The 2+2 equivalent of meeting women

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought downloading porn off kazaa was the 2+2 equivalent of meeting women.

Orange

[/ QUOTE ]

No, no. That's the way 2+2er's meet women.

[ilya]

Nice, a tutorial on how to be the head gorilla. Yeah, yeah, I know it works.

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
As far as fluff talk goes, they talk about something called Eliciting Values. Basically you find out what qualities they find important, or characterstics about themselves that they like and act as if you have the same qualities.

"I love reading"

"Me too, I've read this and this, I loved this"

Even if you hate reading, you surely have read something you can talk about. This is much better than replying with "I don't like to read"

My examples are crude, and maybe even sometimes misapplied, that is why I linked to the site. But just knowing maybe 10 majr concepts has upped my game tremendously.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if I understand you correctly, you like this site because it has made you a better liar?

[Topflight]

I have never flat out lied to someone's face. I'm just saying keep things positive.

Also, don't think I'm some sleezy guy that does anything he can to get with chicks.

I am a romantic by heart. My goal is to find the one person I can be with and share the rest of my life with. I have been with my current gf for nearly two years, we are very much in love.

It could be true that most of the people soaking up this information are just trying to get laid by whatever means possible. This site just helped me become more confident in meeting women, and I truly attribute it to the reason I am with my gf today.

After I found asf I met many women. Kissed a lot of girls at parties, went on dates. I probalby could have got with a lot of them but I didn't. I just used the information to go out and be comfortable with more women, therefore enhancing the chance that I meet someone I could spend the rest of my life with.

It is up to you to decide whether or not to be a sleezbag. The information presented is "just the way it works"

I had a friend in college who was an average looking dude, yet he always had girls around him and was always dating and sleeping with people. I couldn't figure out why this guy was so "successful." After I read some of this stuff I studied him. Most of the things discussed on that site were just natural for him. He was very open and outgoing, very touchy feely. Girls with bfs would always be playing with his hair and hugging him, and he'd hug them back and make sex jokes etc. I would ask the girls about it, and they would say, "oh, that's just chuck, that's the way he is." This is because when he first met them he was touchy feely etc.

Honestly he was a good friend of mine, and whenever he would see me he'd be like.. "Hey Chad, what's up! and put his hand on my shoulder" I guess he was just good at making people feel comfortable.

All I'm trying to get across is that there are some basic things you can learn and do to increase your confidence and talk to more girls.

It's really funny how some of you guys are automatically negative, as if you've heard it all before. It's just some cheesy infomercial type trash "to help you bang chicks."

Imagine you and your friends are trying to find the perfect girl and to do so you go out and talk to a lot of girls each day. Then you come back and talk about each situation and what you said/did that helped you make a connection or made the girl get up and leave. After trying this for years and years you have come up with a few things that are really key to meeting girls, or even people in general and helping you establish and guide the relationship in the direction you want it to go. Then you try and outline everything you have learned. That is what is going on.

Stop acting like uppidy pricks that are above learning something.

[theBruiser500]

at first i thought these tricks were sleezy, but then i realized i was just jealous because i couldn't do it

[BusterStacks]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As far as fluff talk goes, they talk about something called Eliciting Values. Basically you find out what qualities they find important, or characterstics about themselves that they like and act as if you have the same qualities.

"I love reading"

"Me too, I've read this and this, I loved this"

Even if you hate reading, you surely have read something you can talk about. This is much better than replying with "I don't like to read"

My examples are crude, and maybe even sometimes misapplied, that is why I linked to the site. But just knowing maybe 10 majr concepts has upped my game tremendously.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if I understand you correctly, you like this site because it has made you a better liar?

[/ QUOTE ]

You will get laid a lot more by lying. You might not get more girlfriends, but your sex will increase a LOT.

[cnfuzzd]

I will continue to meet women like i always have: By reintroducing myself the next morning and telling them to get the hell out....


peace

john nickle

[B00T]

[ QUOTE ]
I will continue to meet women like i always have: By reintroducing myself the next morning and telling them to get the hell out....


[/ QUOTE ]

Bravo

[River2Pair]

http://www.blowmeuptom.com/images/2004.jpg
Tom Leykis show (http://www.blowmeuptom.com)

[theBruiser500]

I started reading your site topflight, firstly I'm surprised at the tone of this place, it's almost scientific the way they talk about seduction, in a very manner of fact way. Seconly, the quality of this site is good and interesting.

[theBruiser500]

alos the abrreivations are funny

[ilya]

I'm sorry I was so snippy in my post, but you did say that the site taught you to do things like pretend you like reading even if you "hate" it.

I spent a while looking at the website and I think/agree that a lot of stuff on it is just sound advice for shy guys on how to be more socially comfortable. I even think a lot of the advice is very applicable to other contexts, like making new friends or business networking.
On the other hand, there are creepy Nietzschean/mysogynist undercurrents running through the website, from its insistence on the importance of being the "Alpha male" to its confident assertions about women "INSTINCTUALLY" wanting to submit to men.
Also, the actual goal of the website is clearly to teach men how to get LAID more - not just to be more comfortable approaching women (though sure, it could be used just for that). Most of the content is very specific advice on how to manipulate women into becoming interested in having sex with you.

I suck at picking up girls, and I am definitely really jealous of guys who are good at it...but at the same time I don't have much respect for the side of me that's jealous.

p.s. If I ever decided to try to become a player, I'd have to invent some kind of system that didn't involve lots of touching early on. I just think that's so skeezy. I don't trust people who do it; in fact if you wanted to even be friends with me you couldn't be that kind of person.

[Topflight]

Yeah,

There is good info there, just try to avoid being a sleezbag.

Right, the goal of the website is to get laid often and get last fast. Sometimes within an hour of meeting someone, sometimes within minutes.

This is not my personality though, and I still found some very useful things. I think girls can detect the sleeeezy dirty type of guys though. Being a friendly intelligent guy with the awareness of some of these concepts is much different.

Most 2+2ers are above avg intelligence and should be able to filter out the good information.

[Lawrence Ng]

Growing up in a North American culture to realize that perhaps women and men are considered more financially and self-indepent equal counterparts has led heavily into making dating tougher for men.

In the past 10 years, countless dating books written by countless experts have tried to offer what seems to be information of the norm for such people, yet statistics still show that the divorce rates are quite high compared to the previous generation of our parent's.

Speaking from the men's side, I don't think a lot of men have trouble meeting women. It's more so the trouble keeping the women they meet. The big question remains, "What do you women want?"

To some degree, a lot of women don't stick it through with their men nowadays. Yes, some women have the most wonderful attitude, are givers, and flexible enough that they will compromise for the relationship. Sadly to say, a lot of women do not have such an existing nature in North America.

So men have been forced to try harder, to learn more about their counterparts. Unfortunately, there is no single universal guideline to meeting and keeping women. Why? Because women change as they grow and as they develop into the relationship. The key is that the man grows and changes to adapt to that. Many men, including myself, fail in this aspect.

This is why a good number of men are seeking potential mates and looking for women in Asia and Europe. Whilst the majority of women overseas are still quite educated and liberated, they maintain some degree ( and for North American women a huge lacking) of feminism.

Having travelled to Tokyo, Hong Kong, and various other well known Asian cities, I can tell you that I have never felt treated more like a man anywhere else. Sure a lot has to do with being a foreigner from Canada, but nonetheless these women truly make me feel like a man and more so often like a king.

Do these women have motive? Sure they do. Many of them are looking for a suitor, very likely a well off suitor. Is that wrong? Hell no, it is not. Why shouldn't a woman look for a man who is well off enough to take care of them? But in return the woman truly offers a lot of affection and knows in response take care of the man.

Lawrence

[ilya]

Poor, poor men. Used to be all you had to do to get your dick sucked was put some food on the table. These modern women have some nerve.

[NJchick]

[ QUOTE ]


To some degree, a lot of women don't stick it through with their men nowadays. Yes, some women have the most wonderful attitude, are givers, and flexible enough that they will compromise for the relationship. Sadly to say, a lot of women do not have such an existing nature in North America.



[/ QUOTE ]

This is complete BS.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

[Kenrick]

[ QUOTE ]
This is why a good number of men are seeking potential mates and looking for women in Asia and Europe. Whilst the majority of women overseas are still quite educated and liberated, they maintain some degree ( and for North American women a huge lacking) of feminism.

Having travelled to Tokyo, Hong Kong, and various other well known Asian cities, I can tell you that I have never felt treated more like a man anywhere else.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've found the majority of foreign women I've known to just plain be nicer than the typical American woman. With (most) American women, I am forced to be more assertive and aloof with them and have to be careful not to be too nice to them, etc. They force me to be mean to them because they respect that more for some reason. But with (most) foreign-raised women, I can go back to my old nice-guy habits and they actually like it, and they get turned off by the more-selfish behavior American women are attracted to.

My brother recently married his girlfriend of many years who is Russian. He's got a good job and is a smart guy, and she has a better job and might be smarter, so it's not a "looking for a provider" thing. Like most foreign-raised women I've known, she is so nice most of the time that it borders on sickening -- which also shows me how my old "nice guy" ways usually didn't go over well with most American women because they are more selfish and tend to like men who are selfish, too.

[ilya]

You know, in Russia we actually have folk tales about death by hospitality.
We're so sick of how nice we are to each other we've decided to drink ourselves to death.

[EliteNinja]

Enlightening post and site.

Being a geeknerd, this site is awesome.