Chip Bluff!

I've noticed that a couple of times in recent tournaments, a players is trying to "Chip Bluff" me by faking an out of turn bet.


It goes something like this: I'm in middle position and have raised pre-flop. All play checks to me after the flop and the player to my left picks up an appropriate stack of chips and holds them closely in front of him and above the table, indicating that he's getting ready to bet. I quickly see what he is doing, so I check so I can raise him when it gets back to me. However, he takes his hand, with the chips in them, taps the table and says "check", avoiding a bet and thus getting a free card. "What a punk move," I thought. I was going to say something but I needed to concentrate on the other players and the Turn, so I didn't call "time", which I should have in order to complain. What do you think of this move? I always employ the "one handed stack shuffle" maneuver myself when I'm waiting for the cards to come, so I don't have a problem with fingering chips. Even when players arrange them in stacks by the rail for a nice, clean bet or raise, and then just call. But once the chips are in the hand and the hand touches the table, that to me is a bet, even if you say "Check". I heard another player complain to him about this at a different table and I believe the dealer did say something.


What do you all think? This wasn't an accident like putting in a bet and not knowing it had been raised and then asking to take it back when play hasn't advanced, this was deliberate. Did I just get suckered by a pro or should I be getting the floor manager and complaining? I won the hand that this happened during, so I'm glad I turned my efforts back to the game so I could play my cards, but this seems incredibly lame.


Thanks!

This is about the oldest tell in the book...


remember strong is weak...weak is strong.


he is trying to convince you he is going to bet in roder that you check. Then he checks along.


Indeed... this is probably a good time to bluff if you are weak as he is probably on some sort of draw and needs a free card.


If you are thinking of betting and your oppenent reaches for his chips... ALWAYS BET!


Cheers,


Keith

I saw this happen at the Taj. Dealer told the player he had to bet becuase he had chips in his hand when he rapped the table.

But the player verbally said "check". Floorman was called and ruled verbal action has precedence, the check stood. I had been watching this player all night, he always had the stack in his hand when he checked even if he was first to act.

Get used to it! I see it everywhere I play. And I have yet to see a casino with a system or rule to prevent it. The closest I've seen to a "good" system is in CA. A few of the cardrooms out there utilize a circle on the table. If you cross the line with chips in your hand it's a bet. Some places use the "past the cards" rule meaning if your hand goes past your hole cards but this is futile as every player keeps his cards in different places.


Another move very simliar to this is the "action out of turn" where a player on your left will bet before you act, then you check and he says check. Most houses will rule it a check since "action out of turn is not binding".


Keith offers good advice. Most often this is an attempt to get you to check thereby getting a free card. I try to make all my motions smooth, slow and deliberate so that I can take advantage of the things I spot at the table. Too many players, IMO, play too fast and their quick reactions cause them to miss opportunities to bet or cause them to bet when they should have checked.


Keep playing hard!

In this case, remember the axiom "players act strong when weak, weak when strong" . This certainly is a good rule of thumb in a tourney. Ask yourself, why would a decent player, which I could guess most tournament players are, give you free info? It's because he is trying to trick you. I would almost never give them the satisfaction. When you see this, always bet.

If it is a reliable indicator that he is weak, then why would you want him to stop ? Just keep quiet.


Reminds me of a story I heard one player relating to another. He was in a pot when his opponent gave it the Oscar-winning big sigh, shake of head, all that, then bet very sadly. The story goes on "So I folded, and I told him, don't ever try to throw a moody bet at me like that again." Doh.


Andy.

Where I play, the Circle on the table rule has just been established.


The rule states if your hand and or chips cross the line, it’s a bet. There are a few drawbacks to this.


A player can still hold his chips in his hands, and act like he is going to bet, but not cross the line.


A player could also hold his chips just on the outside of the circle, and still check. Both ways he/she sends the same message.


It all comes down to the rules of the card room. If the rules allow you to check with your chips in your hand, then the player is entitled to this play. Albeit a very shady play, he is still entitled. It’s kind of like asking to see someone’s hand after he mucks a called bet.


I have to ask, if I was playing in a game with you, and we were heads up, and I was acting like I was going to fold my cards, and you bet, then I retracted my cards and raised you, how would you feel? Is this the same thing as acting like I’m going to bet and then check?


Just my Opinion

Walleye, The Fish With Teeth