That tricky AK again

Would you ever fold AK preflop in a rebuy NLHE tournament, before the rebuys are over?


Last night, middle of the rebuy period, I get AK in late position. I have just worked my way up to a non-desperate stack of 1500 or so (blinds 50-50 on the button). I am planning to stick my chips in on this hand.


UTG raises to 200, next player reraises 500 more, next player goes all-in for 2000, next player calls all-in for 1200 or so, and it's up to me.


These players are sufficiently loose that they don't have to have AA or KK for this action. The all-in raiser is not a gambling type, so has a big pair or AK for sure, but QQ or JJ are possibilities. The other players are looser.


What should I be thinking in this situation?


Cheers,


Guy.

First of all you should not be making any plans to stick your chips in until you've seen the action in front of you. If it helps, don't look at your cards until it's your action, then there is no danger of preconceived ideas clouding your thinking.


With four players in, individually they don't have to have AA or KK, but collectively it must be a strong possibility. If all 4 turn their cards over, would you be surprised if no-one has AA, KK or AK ? I think I would. That's the other thing, someone else having AK is very bad, you're now shooting for half the pot with 2 less outs.


It is definitely possible to fold this against the right opponents. In the event, I'd have to be there. How much do you get for a rebuy ? 1000, I might gamble. 500, I don't want to get knocked back down into the rebuy trap so I might not.


Andy.

Sounds like an easy fold to me. Occasionally, you'll have the best hand here (in terms of pot equity). Pretty often, you'll have +EV. Most of the time, I suspect you've got -EV here, and when AA is out, your EV is very negative. Adding up all the possibilities, you're going to be a dog in this spot, even against a bunch of very bad opponents.


Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

Thanks for the very useful replies.


My own thoughts at the time were that even if AA wasn't out, AK was likely, and there's at least one pair out there, so I'd be drawing thin to a split at best. So I mucked.


(The last time a situation like this came up, I called and got shown AA, KK and AK making my chances slim to say the least.)


Andy, rebuys were for 500 points. That's also something I thought about.


On the other side of the debate, there's the thought that if I were to call and get lucky, I would have a very nice stack to play with. I take it you think the risks here outweigh any benefits of this risky approach?


Obviously the reason this question was asked is that I would have won the pot. The hands were 88, JJ, QQ and AJ in that order. The AJ won with a rivered ace.


Thanks again,


Guy.

Guy,


Depending on the situation I may call all-in or fold. If it is a fast paced tournament, like a WSOP super-satellite. I would call, because there are not that many opportunites in these fast paced tournaments where you will get a chance to acquire alot of chips when the blinds start doubling every twenty minutes. In many of these tournaments you really are playing a short stack.


I believe the whole key to playing this hand correctly depends on the situation you are facing. If you have already built up a large stack relative to your opponents you would not want to risk your whole stack, so folding may be the proper play.


In the early stages of a rebuy tournament I am willing to go broke if I can win a big pot that will give me two to five times as many chips as everyone else. I've done it before in a similar situation to yours. But, once I have done this and succeeded I want to protect my stack. So, basically, I will not risk all my chips on a hand that I worked hard to acquire.


Furthermore, I would consider how likely will it be for you to make the final table if you fold. If you think your chances are slim with the amount of chips you have left, why not take the risk now?


Good Luck


Mark

Hi Mark,


Thanks for an interesting reply.


It's not a super-fast tournament but not the world championship! I guess there would be about two hours more play before the final, with blinds rising to 100-100 in 30 mins, then 200-200, 400-400, and 500-500 in that time.


My stack was a reasonable playing stack, smaller than the mean but larger than the median I would say.


I thought that these were good reasons to pass: there was no need to gamble. Plus, there's a long way to go until the final, so a big stack now is no guarantee of getting there. On the other hand, getting that big stack would open up several opportunities for applying pressure later.


How do those details affect your opinion?


I am tending to think that passing was right, or at least okay. The biggest mistake I made was to spend the next 30 minutes thinking about that decision, and calling too much to compensate. But (I hope) that's another lesson learned.

Cheers,


Guy.

The first thing that pops into my mind when I see that many people getting involved for that many chips is... there are no aces or kings left in the deck and a pair of jacks or queens will win it. Too much chance that you tie if an ace or king comes but far more likely that most are already dealt out.


I'd pass in most cases.


Keep playing hard!

With 3 raises and an all-in call, I would muck AK. Too much likelyhood you are up against lots of Aces/Kings and big pairs. Plus you are not in stack trouble with 1500 and blinds only 50-50.


Ken Poklitar