6000 man freerolls, am I wasting my time?

[KungFuSandwich]

Im not a great player but Im ok. Are these games even Beatable or is it just a crap shoot. (top 130 places pay)Im willing to read the books and study the hands, but Is this too big of a game to matter.

If you think its too big a tournament please tell me what the biggest (or best size) is for a tournament

If you think they are beatable (just finishing in the money with some consistancy) please tell me what I should focus my study on. I am buying Sklansky's tournament book and Im going to get Harringtons book when It comes out. Is there any other books I should get.

Thanks
J. /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[TheTimeIsUp]

Somehwta offtopic, but I once joined one of stars 6k people freerolls, with the top 9 advancing to next weeks tourneys with small prizes. I thought I had no chance of winning, bullying people around (very unlike my strategy) for the first hour. I noticed I was in the top 5 chip leaders with about 3k left in the 2nd hour, and I started to play more of my game, and actually made it to the final table. So it is possible! Sadly..I was away the next weekend for the tourney I qualified for /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Kraqer]

I generally think these very large freerolls are a crapshot, the level of play is absolutley terrible and it has a tough game to crack, It is very much like rebuy tournaments but 10x worse. People are all in on crap trying to just triple up with anything. I play on ub and when in a 1000 starting chip freeroll tournament, it is not uncommon for the chip leader to have 5k after only a single hand. The craziness may die down after a couple of hours, but the beginning is a MineField for sure.

[M.B.E.]

[ QUOTE ]
Are these games even Beatable or is it just a crap shoot.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's a freeroll, so it certainly is "beatable" in the usual sense (i.e. you have positive $EV in playing it).

How much are they beatable for? Much less than minimum wage, as far as I can see. On PokerStars it seems that in the 6000 player freerolls, only the top 9 get a prize, and that isn't even cash, but rather an entry into another tournament whose total prize pool is $250. Doing some very rough calculations, I'd estimate that a highly skilled player would have EV around $0.05 per hour playing these. (I figure that a highly skilled player would have about a 3% probability of making the top 9, essentially twenty times fair share.)

[jslag]

[ QUOTE ]
How much are they beatable for? Much less than minimum wage, as far as I can see. On PokerStars it seems that in the 6000 player freerolls, only the top 9 get a prize, and that isn't even cash, but rather an entry into another tournament whose total prize pool is $250. Doing some very rough calculations, I'd estimate that a highly skilled player would have EV around $0.05 per hour playing these. (I figure that a highly skilled player would have about a 3% probability of making the top 9, essentially twenty times fair share.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Translation:

Are they beatable? Yes.
Are they worth it? Probably not.

If you're just looking for tourney experience, I'd dedicate part of your bankroll and try some of the $10+1 tournaments. There are also better freerolls, PokerRoom has some decent ones as well as Empire. It won't be a big pay day or anything, but you won't have to spend 5 hours playing just to get an entry to another tournament.

[Bobby Cannoli]

Well, assuming you have a non-zero bankroll, I would highly recommend PokerStars $1/2/3 MTTs. They start at 9:30pm CST Sun-Thurs, and 10:30pm Fri&Sat. 3 days it's $1, 1 day it's $2, and 3 days it's $3, so you can play it every day for only $14 a week. The play is not too wacky, and it's a good learning experience for a newbie (like me /images/graemlins/smile.gif The fields, while large, are not too huge (usually between 1600 and 1800), and they usually pay the top 180 spots. I have been trying to play these whenever possible, and I definitely see my game improving.

Freerolls, in general, are too wacky to really improve your game on, and don't really pay off enough to make your time worth it. The only ones I do anymore are non-holdem ones, once in a while, to blow off some steam and have a good laugh (I have very little experience or knowledge with Omaha and Stud).

Bobby

[knifeandfork]

i know which one you are talking about, and i have placed ITm in them several times if you focus and play very aggressively with your hands better than tpgk you will ususally get paid off and build a nice stack.be very patient and examine your table texture, if your table allows it try to see as many cheap flops as possible with connectors and small pairs (implied odds are huge in these rolls a lot of players cant let go of Q9 when the queen flops, and come in raising (ilike 4x with 2 limpers or less and 6-7 times when the table is trying to limp) with big aces, KQs and pairs 99 and up. a lot of minbetting and stuff post flop, and more than should happen when checked to as the last to act a 2/3 -1 x pot bet will take it down. the first two rounds you will se a ton of people pushing with anytthing dont fall to the temptation to call them with AJ or 77. what the hell they are fun and free and i won 6 bucks once and ran it to 150. oh and btw when you win some money play the sngs

[Oblomov]

Let me see, 6000 players - 130 paid. You are talking about the $1000 freeroll, that Prima Poker sites run twice a day.

I disagree with most of the posts above. Freerolls are an excellent way of improving your tournament skills. I certainly don’t agree with the statement that the play in freerolls is worse than in re-buys. The opposite is true, the worst tourneys are the ones in which the fools who’ll go all-in with just about anything, are allowed to buy back in to the tournament. You end up spending the first hour watching these people blow off stack after stack in the vain hope of doubling up with pocket 8’s. Whereas in most freerolls, these people are eliminated if they go bust.

Once you get beyond the early rounds, the play in freerolls becomes just as serious as in regular tournaments.

However, having said that, I’m not sure if the Prima Poker $ 1000 (which features re-buys, although not many people use them) is the best tournament to be playing. Bet365 Poker, Empire and Interpoker offer freerolls with better odds of making it into the money. For more details on those tourneys, you may want to check out this link (http://www.onlinepokerzone.com/freerolls.htm#picks).

[Jedi Flopper]

My entire poker bankroll has always started with freeroll winnings. In the past six months I have cashed out around 5K and I have about that much left on various sites and netteller. In the past year I have gone bust 3 times and each time I played freerolls until I built another bankroll.

Good freerolls are very much worth it. Pokerroom.com (if you have the player points) Prima, WPX, and interpoker all have great freerolls. Stay away from the Stars freerolls though. You would be better off bagging groceries to build a roll /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[tsnguy]

I find 6000 player freerolls useful for one reason... for me they area a great tilt fixer.

A couple times after hitting tilt for a stretch, I can reset myself by committing to strong tight-aggressive play.

In a minefield tournament like a 6000 player freeroll... you must watch out and play only winning hands. This is an excellent way for me to correct and concentrate for 3-4 hours on solid play.

Just my 2 cents... since I blew the rest on tilt.

tsnguy

[Percula]

Some thoughts...

1) These will temper you for bad beats, beacuse you are going to take a ton of them. This is likely the most valuable part of these. If you can not take a bad beat with a positive attitude, you are headed for a busted bankroll.

2) You can use these to hone certain skills. These can help one learn how to get someone with the worst hand to get their money in the pot against your better/best hand. It will help you to learn how to read betting patterns and how to use them in bluffing. They let you try different things and see how they work out.

Are you wasting your time, no. If you are looking to make money, well yes likely you are wasting your time. If you are looking to improve skills, it has value. But keep in mind that even when it gets towards the end and play improves, it is still a freeroll and you are going to see it in the play. There is a big difference between the last 5% of the field in a freeroll versus the last 5% in a $100 buy-in. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Masquerade]

Yes.

My advice for tournaments would be to start with 9-player Sit and Go's and work the number of players upwards gradually.