Betting with an overcard

[AdamBragar]

I get into this type of hand all the time with varying results. Please critique my play...

.25/.5 NL

UTG+1(45) raises to $1.50, MP (25) calls, folded to me in CO with JJ.

I have them both covered. I raise $4. They both call, 3 to the flop.

Flop: A /images/graemlins/spade.gif 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 10 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Checked to me. Should I bet this? Well, I don't, I check.

Turn: 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Checked to me again. Should I bet this? I do. I bet $7.50. UTG+1 calls, MP folds.

River: 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Checked to me. This is the bigger question. Do I bet here? What could UTG+1 possibly have?

All comments greatly appreciated.

[shtolky]

You are a monkey...in my expert opinion, it appears as if you have the hand won. He doesn't have an ace...how do I know this...I am just that good at poker. Only a monkey like you would ask such feeble questions. Switch to crazy pineapple for now, that is most definitely your game and not NL Texas Hold em

"Sorry don't bake no pies."
--Dee

[phil_ivey_fan]

is this party 6max? It appears so in which case...

what type of opponents are you looking at? LAG, TAG, ???

you are probably looking at a weak Ace or a lower pair. In which case you didn't play agressive enough to bully him out on the river, especially considering the tards playin the 25NL 6max...

I say...check and see what he's got

Quick question, when you say "I raise $4", does that mean you made it "$5.5 to go" or you made it "$4 to go".

[AdamBragar]

This is UB 10 max, which is playing a lot like Party games these days.

When I said I raised to 4, I meant I made it 4 dollars to go.

Let me explain some logic...

I checked the flop because if he had AK or AQ, I expect him to check raise the flop.

By the turn I just wanted to take the hand down and not give someone a chance to river me.

By the river I was confused. Should I just assume this person is a moron and bet again on the river? What will I be called with that I beat?

[elnino12]

1) Was your preflop raise with JJ to get them out of the hand, or to see where they were at? 2) A bet on the flop is suspicious but necessary for a couple reasons: If you raised hard preflop, you probably wouldn't bet the flop with AA, but you need to test the waters here with a medium sized bet. If you get callers--you may just wanted to check all the way to showdown. Also, someone might be holding 10s and slowplaying them. However, since you did not bet the flop and chose to bet the turn instead, you must be cautious of what your opponent could be holding (my guess is AQ to be honest). There is no need to bet the river because: 1) he has a set and will check-raise you, or 2)he has an Ace with a decent kicker and will call you and take your free money /images/graemlins/smile.gif I'm curious as to what he had and who took down the pot. Anyway, that's my two cents. Good luck!

[dmk]

just check through, you'll take it down a good amount of time vs someone that picked up a straight or flush draw, or someone that thinks his T is good. however, there's no value in betting the riv. i probably bet the flop btw.

[willie]

bet the flop
bet the turn
check the river cause he's not calling with a hand that you can beat, there is just no value to be had there.

check behind, on a 6max i would expect to see kq for a busted flush/ gut draw, or even jq for the busted open ender...

no hand that is calling a river bet is one that you can beat i don't think....

[Wayfare]

^^^ can we get this guy banned please?

[AdamBragar]

Let's say you had AK as UTG+1, and for some reason you decided to call the raise preflop (I wouldn't). Would you bet the flop? I think I'd check raise the flop.

That's why I wouldn't bet the flop because someone could be slow playing an ace.

Do I give UB players do much credit at these stakes? Sometimes it seems like most of these players are actually monkeys jumping up and down on a keyboard.

[nicky g]

Bet the flop. You'll often pick it up here.

Check the river. You will not get a better hand to fold nor a call from a worse hand.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
This is UB 10 max, which is playing a lot like Party games these days.

When I said I raised to 4, I meant I made it 4 dollars to go.

Let me explain some logic...

I checked the flop because if he had AK or AQ, I expect him to check raise the flop.

By the turn I just wanted to take the hand down and not give someone a chance to river me.

By the river I was confused. Should I just assume this person is a moron and bet again on the river? What will I be called with that I beat?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, no, no, no. You bet the flop because if he checkraises you you KNOW you're beaten, so get the hand over with.

Plus if you check you allow something like KQ to hit a pair and outdraw you for free. So betting the flop is superior.

If you bet the turn it's to ensure no funny stuff on the river, as you'd like to get the hand shown down. So just check, and and expect to win, but some players wont bet weak aces into semistrong players (your action on the turn) so a bet is not good...

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
Let's say you had AK as UTG+1, and for some reason you decided to call the raise preflop (I wouldn't). Would you bet the flop? I think I'd check raise the flop.

That's why I wouldn't bet the flop because someone could be slow playing an ace.

Do I give UB players do much credit at these stakes? Sometimes it seems like most of these players are actually monkeys jumping up and down on a keyboard.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you had a legitamate draw you would check, because you would want a free turn.

If he actually has an ace you have 2 outs, so who cares about the free card - bet and find out. whee

[shtolky]

Most UB players are monkeys jumping up around on a keyboard. He had 7's right...shows that he is a monkey

[AdamBragar]

The guy had 77. That's what confused me so much. Is this something common?

Thanks for all your comments, it's really helpful.

[elnino12]

It's common if you're playing against weak/loose players who will call all the way to the river hoping to catch their set. If you bet the flop here though, I'm pretty sure he autofolds.

[swolfe]

i haven't read others replies or the results yet, but i'd throw a pot bet at the flop. you have position and checking here is just asking for someone to steal the pot from you.

on the end, i'd check again, and get the showdown on. generally, if you bet out, the only way he'll call is if you're beat. this isn't the type of situation where you would have a caller with second best hand.

[swolfe]

i'd bet the flop with AK. top pair-top kicker is still a pretty weak hand that can be out-drawn. i want to win the pot right there.

[swolfe]

if i was in his place, the check on the flop would tell me that you missed, and you could be trying to steal on the turn with any two broadways. i'd have probably played post-flop in the same way depending on how much you bet and the pot value.

if i was in his place though, i'd have folded 77 to a re-raise pre-flop.

[swolfe]

yeah, your half-pot bet on the turn screams weakness. i'd have actually raised you there if i was in his place, figuring that i had you beat with a pocket pair or that you were scared enough of the ace that you'd fold.

[phil_ivey_fan]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this something common?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, get used to it. They are called fish and they've paid for my social life as well as donated considerably to my B-Roll for the past 6 months.

[creedofhubris]

Raise more preflop if you want them to fold.

Bet the flop. Check the turn. Check the river.

Or, check the flop. Bet the turn. Check the river.

You can't assume that opponent is awful enough to call you with a hand you can beat, and you can't make him fold an ace, so a bet has no value on the river.